Divine Light Magazine No 10

THE GOSPEL OF PEACE

Answers from Shri Guru Maharaj Ji to questions from Indian people in South Africa, 4 May 1972

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in South Africa in 1972

We have got some press cuttings from different newspapers around the world, mostly from India, which give opposition to Divine Light Mission. Is there any newspaper or higher authority that has actually blessed the Divine Light Mission?

Yes. That is God. The highest authority, God, has blessed us. We are getting more opposition than anyone and still we are existing.

It's God's grace. You are just sitting in South

Africa reading the cuttings, but you should go and see how India really is now. Things are changing.

Do politics and religion go together?

Sometimes they have to go together, they have to be synchronized. Because politics governs the people physically and religion governs the 'people internally, spiritually. So if the two things are synchronized, it is better than both things going in different ways. Gandhi Ji wanted to make the Kingdom of Peace, but that is only possible when the King of Peace is here. If He were here preaching the gospel of peace then the two sides would automatically be synchronized. Actually the best politician is Satguru, and He is the best Spiritual Master too, because He knows politics and He knows everything. Today people think that by putting a gun to a man's head you can make him do anything, but that's not true. Only by converting his ideas can you make him do anything and Satguru has got that thing that converts ideas and that is the Knowledge. So He can serve people better than a politician. First of all He preaches the gospel of peace and once everyone knows it, we can start getting better politics. But what is politics? People think politics is just arguing, but really politics is the best policy for governing a nation. And politicians are people who carry out that policy.

But what about Tibet? Tibet was governed by

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priests but now the communists have taken over. So why did that happen?

First of all, what is the word for priest? Pujari, isn't it, and that means a man who does puja, a man who does prayer. He is a priest. Their work is not to govern Tibet. Their work is to do puja for Guru Maharaj Ji, for the Lord of the Universe, who is God. But Guru is something else. Guru gives Light, and when Guru rules, everything is all right. Until now, there has only been one Kingdom of Peace, one Ram Raj, and that was governed by Rama. But if you turn the switch on and the Light doesn't come, then it means there is a fault either in the switch or in the bulbs or in the wire. So if the priests were ruling Tibet and the communists took over it means there was a fault in one of them. There was a fault in one of the connections. And if that fault had been discovered and corrected, then there would have been true religion there. Leave that question anyway, because you are not a Tibetan and anything you do is not going to alter it now. What is done is done. What you need is not an answer for the Tibetan situation. What you need is peace. If you come to me and ask me these political questions, I will say first of all let me preach the gospel of peace and then I will tell you about politics. Because we need peace first. There is too much politics in the world, there are too many politicians, too many political minds. We don't need to ask why something has happened. And if that is what you want to know then I am sorry because I can only give you peace. If I am a cloth merchant, why come and ask me the rate of iron? First is peace. We need peace. Peace is important.

If you were in India during the Indo-Pakistani war, then why didn't you end it?

If I had been preaching to Mrs Indira Gandhi and Mr Bhutto then it would have been alright. But I was not. I was preaching to people who wanted to hear me, who wanted to receive the message of peace. If a bulb is shining in this room, it. doesn't mean that the whole house is lit up.

But if you have a special quality which can bring peace … ?

This special quality is inside, it is spirit, and it can be connected to spirit, not to man's thinking and acting system. First it has to be connected inside. When spirit and spirit are connected then there will be peace. Otherwise there is magnetic reaction.

But what is that special quality that you are claiming to have?

I only preach the gospel of peace and give people this Knowledge which enables them to gain peace.

But your followers claim you are an incarnation of God.

So why are you asking me, "Why are you claiming this?" I am not saying that. It is my followers who are saying it. Go and ask them, "Why are you saying He is God?", and they will tell you.

So you say your only special quality is preaching the gospel of peace and giving this Knowledge?

That's right.

And nothing else?

That's right.

Now I would like to ask, what is the difference between a Satguru and a Siddhiguru.

There is a lot of difference. By the grace of Guru Maharaj Ji you can serve the Lotus Feet and gain the Knowledge that gives peace of mind. There are many siddhis, but they don't give you any peace. Siddhis are powers which you acquire but they are lower than Knowledge, because Knowledge is that power that governs everything and that gives power to the siddhis. So what is that supreme power? Remember Satguru is greatest. If Guru and God are standing together, before whom do we prostrate first. It is Satguru, since through Guru we realize God.

So in this world, if you want to argue, there are many things to argue about. If you want to ask questions, there are many things to ask questions about. But the main question is, how to attain peace. Other things are not important,

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Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1972

they come and go, but the Knowledge is important because it gives us peace. Knowledge is by itself in me, and by meditating on it I can get peace. Siddhis need something else to react upon. If I want to change the colour of the carpet, then I need a carpet in the first place before I can change the colour, right? But this Knowledge stands alone, it is itself perfect, self-dependent and inside me. It can answer all questions. It can calm that thing inside us that is flickering and making our thoughts go so quickly. Arjuna said, "Lord, I can control the elements of the air but I can't control my mind." So what did Krishna do? Krishna gave him the Knowledge. And this Knowledge is easy to receive and it's not easy to receive. To fly from one place to another is very easy, but if you don't get a plane it is very hard. To get this Knowledge is very easy but if you don't find the Guru it is very hard. Without devotion for Satguru you will never feel the true vibration of heaven, you will never achieve detachment from this materialistic world. But go to the Guru and then it is very easy.

But I have been given the impression that siddhi-gurus can initiate disciples, and then they can progress very quickly spiritually. Is this a fact?

The Satguru is the giver of Truth. Is there anything bigger than Truth? I am just asking your opinion.

No, nothing.

So if our Master is preaching Truth, then He Himself must be the Highest Authority. Right? So that Master has got an excess of grace and when He gives us some of it, everything happens, and we don't need siddhis. Siddhis are connected to our mind and are below it. Mind is the twelfth stage. Before it are the five faculties of perception, the five faculties of action, and the brain. But beyond the mind is the thirteenth stage, and that is the stage of perfect peace and that is where the Knowledge takes you. So you can only be helped when you personally know the Knowledge. I keep telling you but you don't understand me. As long as you have questions you cannot understand. Theory cannot describe it. It is a matter of practical experience.

What do you have to say about Bhagwan Ramakrishna Param Hans initiating Swami Vivekananda?

It was the Knowledge imparted by Ramakrishna Param Hans that made Swami Vivekananda understand all the mysteries. In the Gita, Arjuna asks so many questions, and Krishna answers them. But because of this Arjuna did not say, "Oh Lord, you are the yogis' Yogi and the gurus' Guru. I am sorry I called you my friend and cousin." When he realized the Knowledge he said that. There were many discussions between Swami Ramakrishna Param Hans and Swami Vivekananda, but that didn't satisfy him. The Knowledge itself satisfied him, and I must give priority to that thing that satisfies me. Because what was it that made Swami Ramakrishna Param Hans a guru, a Holy Man? It was not the knowledge of scriptures, because many people today have a good understanding of scriptures. But we are lacking for Knowledge itself.

But how is power transferred from the Master to the disciple?

By grace.

Is there a special system?

Only grace. On the receiver's side it is a question of being a humble disciple, a humble servant. Being learned means nothing in receiving this Knowledge. Merely desiring it means nothing. Guru Nanak had this power, but He didn't give it to His son, did He? His son never had this power. And from the Guru's side it is a question of grace. When we are humble disciples He then gives us His grace. Not before. In my satsang today I am saying many things from scriptures. But I haven't read the Gita. I haven't read the Ramayana. All the knowledge I've got today, I got from my Father's satsang. But only the Knowledge and the grace of my Lord has made me able to preach it. Only Knowledge and grace. Grace is necessary to make the Knowledge active and to make it more glorious. It is like a booster, it is like an amplifier. It is like a transformer. It elevates. I know the Knowledge. The Knowledge is within me and I know the Knowledge of the Word. I know what I am hanging from. I am not hanging from my lungs and I am not hanging from my heart. I am hanging from my spirit, I am hanging from my soul.

And if you want to have real confirmation of

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what I am saying, you do not need to read the papers. They don't matter. What I see matters. Papers can print anything. I can publish a magazine today and write anything I want in it. Papers even criticise Indira Gandhi. Even now she has done a great job for India. Still some criticise her. So don't believe anything they write about me, at least not when I am alive. When I am dead you may believe them if you want, but why believe them when you can come to the living thing? Papers are meant to give you information. It doesn't mean they print the truth. But today this illusion has arisen that anything the papers say must be true. First of all papers printed that I was coming in December, but I never came. I had to change my programme, I had some important work to finish. If I were dead it would be different but I am alive so ask me what I say. Do I call myself God? Ask me. Why do you believe papers? I am not printing papers. Papers are being published by separate organizations which might co-operate with me or criticise me. As long as I am alive, ask me. People say I am God, but I don't say I am God.

I have a small question. How does an individual know that he is really progressing on the spiritual path? What signs does he have?

The fluctuations of the mind will start slowing down, then … you should know the Knowledge and then you will see for yourself what the effects are.

Isn't it better for the disciple to act the Knowledge rather than talk about it?

Both should be done. Knowledge should be manifested and practised and talked about, so other people can know about it and receive it.

But can't you let people know about the Knowledge without talking to them?

Well, if you start using signs they might think you are crazy. God has offered us a tongue and with it He has offered us a voice box, so we should utilise them!

What he is trying to ask is can't you send the message without the tongue, like …

Telex!

It is not a joke. It is a fact! I read about it in a book about Ramana Maharshi, that a journalist went to him to ask many questions and Ramana Maharshi was sitting in meditation, and when he finished meditating someone told the journalist he could start asking his questions. But the journalist did not have any questions. They had all mysteriously been answered.

Maybe that was Ramana Maharshi's method of communication.

No, I wasn't talking about that. I am just suggesting that disciples should manifest the Knowledge in themselves by the way they live, and nothing more.

You see how illusory the world is. Why don't you try to experience what you are trying to tell me. First you cannot express anything until you have experienced it. If I am sitting in my chair and suddenly the door opens and air blows and windows start banging I get frightened don't I? I think who is there? And then I run out. See? It is a matter of experience. We must know what we are experiencing. And when we are experiencing peace and we want to express it to somebody we

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must use our tongues to do it, mustn't we?

To a certain extent, maybe.

I am just asking you to answer yes or no.

No.

Look, if you are sitting with your friends, the same friends you sat with before you received Knowledge and you are feeling some peace because of the Knowledge. They can tell you are more peaceful but then you should give them some more information about it, about how they can receive the Knowledge also.

But I think you can only feel the vibration when someone isn't talking. If they are talking I can't feel the vibration.

Look, Guru talks and people who want to feel the vibration of His presence always feel it, but only those people who want to, feel the vibration. A walkie-talkie reaches those people who are tuned into it. The radio reaches those people who are tuned into it. Right?

Guru Maharaj Ji, would you say something about the humble duties of our mothers, sisters and wives, the ladyfolk of this country.

They need to obtain this Knowledge and get peace of mind like the men. There is a different understanding of this in the East and the West. In the West a couple is together and then they are divorced. They really need a settled mind. Then all misunderstandings will disappear. When you understand the value of this body, then you will understand the value of your mother and your wives and your fathers and everyone.

But some people are saying that to spread this Knowledge they must leave their husbands and their work, must leave this, leave that and even forget Lord Rama.

Who is putting this statement?

Those who haven't any shame.

Bring them!

And another thing is, Guru Maharaj Ji, who amongst your disciples are those worthy to reveal your Knowledge. Can anybody do it?

Those people who have realized it, who have received special permission and who have grace. No-one else is capable.

Suppose I already have a Guru, does that mean I should reject him?

Without True Knowledge your true nature can never be revealed to you. If you are satisfied with the water from one tap then there is no need to go to another tap but if the first tap is useless for you and does not satisfy your thirst, then you must leave it and go to another tap.

What about Vivekananda and Ramakrishna?

I respect Rama and I respect Krishna. They were the born Lords of their time. More than, respect, we should pray to them. But today what we really need is Knowledge and for that you need the Perfect Lord who is present at this time.

Does that mean that you are claiming to be the only Guru in the world?

If you have received the Knowledge from me and you have achieved perfect satisfaction, yes, for you I am the only Guru.

Do you want to be the Guru for the world?

Have you been inside my body, have you been inside my brain, so that you can understand what I want? No, you are creating imagination. You can do that in algebra but this is not algebra. What I want is to serve humanity. I am just a humble servant of humanity and I want to preach this Knowledge just to help them. Today so many wars are taking place. They are not helping anyone. They are destroying nations. Bombs destroy hospitals and important places. What I want to do is to preach peace.

Are there other Gurus in India like you?

Why don't you go and search?

This is a very basic question to ask, you should not avoid it, otherwise there is no point in discussing it with you.

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Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1972

I am telling you straight, I am not joking with you. Now tell me one thing, will you believe what I say?

We will only believe what we think is true.

Then why bother to ask me anything? Now listen. Many gurus can say they are perfect so what is the method to realize which is the real one and which is artificial. If there are two types of fruit before us and they are the same in all respects but one is artificial and one is real, then how can you test between them? Only by tasting, isn't it? That's what I want to tell you. You should test all these gurus for yourself. Finding the Perfect Master and obeying the Perfect Master is not a small thing. It's not like buying a new car and if it goes wrong throwing it away and buying another. Following a Perfect Master is a whole-life thing because you are going to believe in Him for ever because perfect things last for ever. So don't believe me. Even if I say I am the Perfect Guru, don't believe me. If you really want to know you should say to me, "If you are a Perfect Guru, give us Knowledge." And if you are completely satisfied with the Knowledge, I am your Guru. Only by eating the fruit do we understand that the lemon is sour and the apple is sweet.

Somewhere in the magazine, Maharaj Ji, I read that you are the only Supreme Power who can lead one to the Light of God and other gurus aren't important. Now what experience have you had of these other gurus that you can utter these words?

But I never said that. Show me where it is written. Everything I say has a foundation. Yes, the question is, what is the purpose of all other teachers who are on the earth now? And I answer, when there is a tree, beside that tree are many weeds and these weeds are unnecessary. So when the gardener comes he takes them all out. What are they doing there? They are just there. When this tree really grows into something they will abolish these weeds. It will be very powerful. These weeds are unnecessary, they are just wasting one's time. People go to them and it takes five years for them to decide, "No, he is not a true master, let us look for something else", and they go to somebody else and they waste their time again, they waste five years unnecessarily. There is no use in this. To waste five years of your time is always unnecessary if there is only one Master. So, isn't that true?

Yes

If there is only one Master, everybody can rush to Him. If these weeds were not there, then the Perfect Master would stand out and everybody could go to Him and receive Knowledge without wasting time. But these weeds distract people and they stop people from coming. The trouble is, people are so suspicious nowadays because everything is so artificial.

But aren't you saying you are the tree?

No, I don't say I'm the tree.

Let me tell you what I think. I may be wrong but I think you are saying to your disciples that you are a tree and there are a lot of weeds around you, and one day you will wipe those weeds out and you will be the spiritual master. That's what I think.

That's what you think.

That's what I think, but I may be mistaken.

Let me explain. First of all I know this business from beginning to end, because I have been giving all the answers. This happened in London ashram didn't it? This is our magazine and it has quoted what was said and you can go there and ask the people. Now this man was my disciple when he asked this question, and my answer to him is fact. If I am a weed, then it is still a fact. And if I am a tree, then still what I said is true. But if I say I am a tree and you have realized me, you have asked me for my fruit, you have taken it, you have eaten it, but you have gained nothing, then you will know that I am not the tree. Now you are more intelligent than me in a worldly sense, so you must know what's right and wrong, and you have created the impression in yourself that I am trying to be a tree. But let me say that I never try to be a tree. I am what I said, a humble servant of humanity and that is very clear.

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Published by Divine Light Mission, "Fern Bank", Golden Manor, Hanwell, W. 7. Tel 567 6142 Printed by Covent Garden Press Ltd., London W.C.2.