Divine Light Magazine No 11

HE CREATED EVERYTHING

Satsang and Answers from Shri Guru Maharaj Ji
Johannesburg, 3rd May 1972

All of you brothers and sisters might think that there is a particular reason why I have called you here today. The reason is very simple. It because we have all received that fantastic Knowledge and we now speak the language of love and live the life of peace and no more are we in frustration and illusion. By great luck and great fortune we can't receive this Knowledge. Fortunes come and go away. Luck comes and goes.' A man is poor, he becomes rich, and rich people become sick, ill, and they die. So luck comes and goes and it is not due to luck that we receive the Knowledge, nor is it due to fortune that we have received the Knowledge. It is due to grace. And it is not my grace, it is the grace of the Lord, the Lord of the whole universe who is almighty and who we call our Father, our real Father.

Today people are practising many types of thing. The people who have received Knowledge know how easy it is to meditate upon it. And why I have called you is because I want you all to cooperate with me to help me spread this Knowledge throughout South Africa and the world. That's all I need and that's all I want.

Mahatma Ji was just talking of service. I need nothing. I don't need money. If you give me money maybe I could buy a Rolls. If you give me more, maybe I could buy a Lear Jet and it you give me more than that, probably I could buy a 707. And if you give me more than that, probably I could buy a 747. But I can't buy God with money. And God is what we need. We don't need 747's, we don't need Rolls's. We need God and God is not purchased with money.

So today you must determine to cooperate with me in spreading the real message of the Lord, the real Name of the Lord. Not my message, not my name, but the message of the Lord, the Name of the Lord. To speak the message of the Lord to everyone in the world. To knock on all the doors and tell how far out this Knowledge is. Because it is! We are not speaking a lie. It is far out. This is why we must tell everyone and knock on everyone's door. That's what we have received and that's what you should receive. So meditate upon this Knowledge because meditation is like food. Once you get the food, then you have to cat it. So this is meditation_ Once you have received this Knowledge you have to meditate upon it. When you are meditating upon it you arc eating it, you are eating it, you are realising it, you are going into it. So that's all I ask. I don't ask for anything else. And if you want to render me any service, I think the highest service you can render me will be to tell people about this Knowledge. Because you are going to help me spread the Knowledge of God in this world. This is not the knowledge of a video, this is not the knowledge of a camera. It is not the knowledge of a mike or of a house. This is the Knowledge of Almighty God Who is present everywhere, even in us. And people should know Him because if they don't they are an orphan child. The Father is there, but the child doesn't know Him. He is very unlucky. We are all children. We are not God's uncle or His brother or His nephew, but we are all God's children. Really we are infants. Because of sins we feel sad, but God – if we realize Him doesn't mind about them.

He created everything. If there is a tape recorder and it is a bit shaky, when the speaker reproduces the sound, there is a zzzzzzzzzz, a buzzing like that, but once I fix an eternal speaker into the tape recorder then all the waves are coming through this and there is no buzzing, there is no distortion.

In the same way, we are actors in the movie of this world. We are acting and we are doing sins and good things too. But if we surrender ourselves to the Almighty Lord – and there is no-one else in the world we can surrender to – then all our actions, all our sins will be on Him, and He will just blot them out.

So I'm not going to take a long time, but what I want to tell you is to receive this Knowledge and if you have it, to meditate on it and spread it all over the world. Tell people this is the Knowledge that they can all receive, so that they will know about it and take full privilege of it. Because they are your brothers and sisters, they are your family. People think this is South Africa, this is England, this is India, this is Burma, this is China this is … and so on. But no, it s the whole world that is. We should not see just a country or just a part of the world but now we should look at the whole world. We may think we belong to India, but God who created us has created the whole universe. Our country is not India. Our country is not China. Our country is not England; our country is the whole world. Our world is the whole world. And

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Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharj Ji in 1972 all are relatives. Some are wives, some are sisters, they are all our relatives, all over the world so we must tell them, we must give them the opportunity to know this Knowledge and to meditate upon it. So now I have told you what I want, just to spread this Knowledge, and that's all. And it's easy, it's not difficult. And you have time to do it. You go to business, all right. You return back from business, all right. But you still get some time. Give this time speaking to people about this Knowledge, about this Holy Word.

And now meditate upon this and get higher and higher into it. It goes in steps, you know. When we enter this room at first there was a light and we thought the light was sufficient. Then this man brought this sun gun so that he could take the movie, and this light is so bright that we think the old light will not be sufficient. The same light that we were seeing before is not sufficient for us now. And if an even brighter light comes than this sun gun, then this sun gun will not be sufficient for us because we will have seen a brighter thing. And in this way we will grow and grow as the light gets brighter and brighter until even the sun comes. But for people who have seen a brighter light than the sun, the sun is nothing for them. So that light and that Word within us and within everyone exists and because of it you are alive, you are surviving. So what more should Ji tell you? I can only tell yob to meditate. What more can I tell you? You have realized this Knowledge. You have heard satsang, and you have realized. So now there is nothing more to say. Because once we have received this Knowledge, we don't speak an ordinary language; we speak the language of love. Once we have received the Knowledge, we don't live an ordinary life„ we live a life of peace. Practise peace. That's all. Now I have told you, and if you want to do something for me, spread this Knowledge. Tell people about this Knowledge. And now, if you have any questions about what I have just said, please ask. If you have any questions at all, please ask.

Who are you?

Who am I? I'm just an ordinary humble servant of God, preaching the gospel of peace in the world. People might call me God, but I don't think I am God. I think I am a humble servant preaching the gospel of peace, preaching the Knowledge of peace. Am I anything else? You are seeing my body, but I am not my body. What I am is something else inside me. What are you? You are not body, you are something else. What I am seeing when I look at you is a perishable object, a case in which that power, that soul, is being carried. Understand? When you see a camera, what you are seeing is not the camera. It is a tin case. The machine is inside it. Right? The case is not taking the picture, it is the real machine inside that is taking the picture. What you are seeing is a case. And what is me is inside me. And if you want to know what that is, then look inside yourself, and once you realize that, you can realize what is inside me. Because that's the one common factor amongst all of us. It's not your body, because you can't operate on it. Doctors can do operations but they don't see that Light inside us. Not by these eyes can you see that Light. It is the Divine thing, and to see that really you need the Divine thing.

What happens to all the souls that leave the body?

They go, and where they go is explained in many ways according to beliefs. Christian people believe in resurrection, that all the dead bodies will come back and be alive again. There are many beliefs, but I've not read them all. I only know two beliefs, the Indian belief and the Christian belief, because while I've been travelling throughout the world, I meet mostly Christian people. They have been telling me their beliefs, but what is according to Indian belief, if you are interested, I can tell you that too.

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Tell me.

All right. According to Indian belief we do actions and then/ we have to get the fruit of these actions. Good fruit for good actions; bad fruit for bad actions. So, if we have done good actions, we are carried to that place which we call paradise, right? But if we have realized this Knowledge we don't go to paradise. Instead we go to heaven, the place of God, understand? And if we have done bad actions we go to hell, where we suffer the bad fruits and get the punishment for all we have done. If we have done bad actions throughout our lives, accordingly we shall get full punishment for the sins we have committed. But once we know the Knowledge, sins vanish, because, according to Lord Krishna, one who has realized the Knowledge and is meditating at the last moment of his life, remembering God, Krishna says, "Without doubt he reaches me." Even if I have done sins throughout my life, if at the last moment somebody gives me Knowledge and 1 practise that Knowledge, where will I go? Not to hell, not to paradise, but to heaven. That's how it is. That's why saints have always recommended that we should have the Knowledge, whether we have done good actions or bad actions.

What is hell? Where is it?

It is just nothing. It is just a place where we seek our punishment. It's like this. This is a classroom and I am a child making lots of noise and the master says, "If you make more noise I'm going to send you out." But still I continue making noise. The master says, "Get out of the class!" And I stand outside. That's all. I'm doing my punishment.

Will this Knowledge save us from re-birth?

Yes. Once we have this Knowledge we reach the heaven from where we cannot return.

Excuse me, is there no such thing as reincarnation according to the Divine Light Mission?

When we know this Divine Light, if we have to come back again, then what's the use of it?

I don't know. That's why I am asking you.

Once we know this Divine Light, we reach Divine Man. And once we reach Divine Man, nobody wants to return from there.

In other words, if we take Knowledge, according to your teachings, we become perfect?

Not quite. If you place an object in the sea, it doesn't become sea does it? First we must realize what we are. We must know our source. What is that source? We must not think we are our brain. Our brain is a simple organ making us act and react to things. We think of something like, "I want to walk out of this room." My idea comes, the brain works, I get up and walk out. The brain is just a simple messenger between me and my other organs. I am not surviving because of my brain. If a man dies, we can operate and see his brain, his brain is still there. But there is something else. If you think a man is surviving because of his lungs, then operate. The lungs are there, all other organs are there, only one organ is missing, and that's no organ, that's no limb. That's soul! That's the power. And what is that? That's part of God. But when we say "I", that's no part of God. If I say "I'm perfect", am I perfect? No, because I am using "I", and the perfect thing does not use "I" for itself, because it is not a separate body. Understand? As long as "I", "we", "you" and "me" are there, we are not perfect. But if by any means, let's say anything, including Knowledge, we are able to remove our "I", then we are perfect. But when we come to this stage of complete realization we can see all other things. It is a completely different stage. Only if we reach that stage can we realize it. You know, I can't really tell you the experience of that stage or whatever it is. To know it you must have the practical experience. If I ask you, "What is Christianity?" You won't be able to tell me. I have to personally become a Christian, and then realize for myself the experience of Christianity. You can't tell me by words. If you could, then everybody could know beforehand. It's not like that. You have to become it. So I can't tell you the real experience of that stage. No, we become it. We are merging with the perfect, all right? Take a glass of water and take a dropper. Suck water into the dropper. Press the dropper, let a drop drop down into the glass, then try to find out where the drop is. Can you find it? It has been merged. It goes through the merging stage, then it becomes merged. Isn't it true? It's the same with us. We merge into the perfect thing, and that's when we become perfect. In other words, it is not "we" who are really there, but because I talk in English and that's the language where we use "we's" and "I's" and "you's", that's what I am using here. But there's no "we" there, really, because you can't figure it out. You won't be able to say, "This is Milky and this is Gary", you know. You won't be able to figure it out because they've completely merged. So there's no "I's", "you's", and "we's". It's a simple matter of realization. Just realize. It's far out really!

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Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1972 Guru Maharaj Ji, where did you receive this Knowledge?

From my Guru. It's not like an apple that comes out of a tree. I received it from my Guru. He was my Father and He gave me this Knowledge. He gave me this Knowledge and He ordered me to give it to other people. Which is what is am doing now.

Is it necessary to be a vegetarian?

That's on you. I tell you about Knowledge, not about food. It's not my subject, I can't tell you anything about that.

In the Bible, in the Torah, in the Koran, they all preach peace and people have been practising these religions for thousands of years. Now is the peace that you are talking about different to the peace that we can read about in the Bible and the Koran:

See. If you can get peace by reading, then we don't need churches and we don't need priests. That's alright. Get the Bible from the market and read it. Then you've got peace. Let me explain. I need water, and I read in a book the word water. All right? I was thirsty, I read "water", and my thirst is gone away. Is that right? That's not right. The word "water" is just a composition of letters. So what is peace? Do you think P-E-A and all those other letters are peace? P for pet, and so on. Is that peace? No. It is just a composition of simple letters collected from a particular language. So what is peace? Peace is something else. If I am talking about food, suppose I say "lady's finger" or "bindi". Different words meaning the same thing. They are just collections of letters composed in a manner which indicate, which represent something. That thing cannot be put in a book. Only some letters indicating it can be put in a book. I cannot put food into a book, so I send a word there which represents it, and that word is "food". So that's it. What is peace? Peace is something else. If peace could be given by just putting these letters together, then God would have taken lots of small pieces of paper and printed "peace" on them and showered them down like rain. In America when the Vietnam war started, everyone was chanting, "Peace, peace, peace". And before the President's house in Washington D.C. there were boards saying, "Peace". But peace was not there. The word peace was there, but peace is something else. It is a matter of realization, it is not a matter of reading.

Guru Maharaj Ji, do we have to leave the religion of our birth to acquire your Knowledge?

What is religion? Religion is a way of believing in God, that's all I believe in the resurrection. Some Christian people believe in the resurrection. Some Hindu people believe in rebirth. That also is a way of believing in God, and there are other ways, all made by the sages of ancient times. But what is important is not the way of believing, it is to know the Knowledge.

Guru Ji, are there any other Perfect Living Masters?

I can't tell you, you must go and realize for yourself. What is a Perfect Master? When you use the word "perfect", then it has to be one thing,

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Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1972

not two. I told you, there is no question of "I" and "you", when we are talking about the perfect. When you say "perfect", there can't be two, there can only be one. Can there be more?

Can you explain to me this Knowledge in terms of yoga?

What is the meaning of yoga? Actually, yoga an Indian word meaning union. One and one, the yog, when they combine, make two. that is the real yoga which Krishna teaches - one G :a7 He says it's Raja Yoga. This means King Yoga. Amongst all the unions, this is the greatest union, the greatest communication, because it is between us and God. Taking a drop and putting it into the glass, that's it. That's called real yoga.

But what I want to know is where does God fit in relation to our chakras?

God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.

How do you receive the grace of God?

Through the Knowledge you can become one with God. Through the Knowledge you're in frequent communication with God. I have just been explaining what is meditation, what is yoga. It is making communication. It's more perfect than a telephone and more perfect than a telex. It is instantaneous free communication. When you want to book a call, you dial the operator and tell him, "I want to book a call." But it's never like this with Knowledge, there's no operator in between. There is just the telephone office and Sat-guru is the Telephone Manager. And the telephone is a walkie-talkie. Do you understand?

Guru Ji, how does the Knowledge tie up with the awakening of the kundalini?

You must know the Knowledge and realize it for yourself. How can I tell you? This is not something that can be put into words. Words are just used for representation of a thing, but if something hasn't got any representation, how can you apply words to it? There are so many questions and people get so worried about them. A question is like a white ant eating a man from inside. But questions can be dissolved by taking the right medicine, and then everything will be all right.

I have been interested in the path of spiritual truth and leading people along it, but now I'm very impressed that I must unlearn what I have learned and teach my people your teachings.

First of all, people have to be introduced properly. You know, you can't go around with this videogram camera telling everyone, "This is a videogram." People will get afraid of this gun type of thing. First of all you have to tell them that this is a videogram. Give them a perfect introduction, then they will understand what it is and not be frightened. And if you are going to give it, it should be at the right price and through the

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proper dealer. The dealer should be authorised, and to be authorised, you have to have a special licence, and this comes from the Guru who has taught us this Knowledge. And with this licence He also makes us solid inside so that it doesn't matter how many questions are hammered into us, we are able to face them. That's called authorising the dealer to give the video, to give the Knowledge.

Guru Ji, is the truth that you are giving the same truth that was given by people like Christ?

This truth was revealed by Christ, by Buddha and by Krishna. All the Perfect Saints have been revealing this truth. It is nothing new. The Aquarian Gospel was written before I was born, and I think even before my Father was born, who was my Guru and who gave me this Knowledge. But I see that the way described in the Aquarian Gospel is still the same way now. It's not new, it's the most ancient thing. It was even before day was created, before night was created, before darkness was created, before anything was created. I think most people now believe in the theory of evolution, and even before evolution it was there. All right, evolution took place slowly, it was not like a bomb which came out of a gun and – pow!!! everything was there. Yes it happened slowly and slowly, according to those people who believe in the theory of evolution. But all the action was being done by an actor. Without the actor there can be no action, can there? So who was that actor? That was this power, the source which is making us act today also. We think that our brain is making this act, but no! When that power goes away, does our dead body continue to act? Does a dead body act? No. That power was making us act. And this Knowledge is there at that time before the world, before the planets were created and because of this Knowledge all the actions took place and the theory of evolution took place too.

If the truth was there in the beginning, how did we lose it in the first place?

It's not that we lost it, it's just that we became frustrated. You know it's there, it's just the frustration of not being able to hold it.

I know about the frustration, but I can't see how anybody who had the truth could lose it, or let it slip.

We never lose it. The truth is always inside us, we just forget about it. See this block. We are standing on this side of it. One moment ago, we were standing on that side of the block, and we forgot the way back. We say, "Oh I'm standing here, how can I get to the other side?" That's it. Simple! Then a man comes, a guide comes, and says, "All right, come here, come with me", and He takes me. Then we are there. Nothing to it. We just forgot about it, see? Because when we came into this world we think it is so fantastic –all the plants growing, all the different flowers growing, this growing and that growing, this taking place, that taking place, the cars running, the helicopters landing, the planes flying and everything. All this you see. You say, "Wow! What is this!" And we get lost. Instead of remembering that Knowledge, we start remembering how the plane flew last night. We get lost in that. Guru says, "All right, that's it," and brings us back to the place where we really are. Nothing really extraordinary.

Is it good to have a Knowledge review, Guru Maharaj Ji?

See, it's like this. We go to a mathematician, all right, a teacher who teaches mathematics, and he is going to teach us something that's already in the books. The Guru is going to reveal to us something that is already in ourselves. He teaches one sum and gives an example of it. All right? You are not satisfied, so he will take that particular sum and work it out for you in detail so that we understand it, right? And the more times he repeats it with us, the more confirmed we will become about it. Because the sum can be done in four ways – addition, deduction, multiplication and division. Maybe we understand one but do not understand the.others. Maybe he has done 4 and 4 equals 8. Now where did the 4 come from? He shows that it comes from 2 and 2. Then we understand, when he repeats it, when he explains about it, then we understand how it is done. The more he goes over it, the more we get confirmed, then it's all right. And as long as I am in South Africa, any time you have any questions – and you know people can have some really great questions – you can call a meeting and you can all come and I will answer them, just like today. We can do it again, right? Because this is a tonic for us, it's like an injection, a special tonic injection. All these questions are really just an injection and give us some good confirmation. Meditation – that's another thing, that's a separate process. We do that yes. But when we come and listen for satsang, we get more confirmed. Powerful thirst, powerful tonic. You get more confirmed.

I would like to link up with what this gentleman

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Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1972

said about the one Perfect Master. Can there only be one Perfect Master in one period of time, according to your beliefs or opinions?

There is one thing that is passing by, and that is Light. Perfect Light passes from one body to another. It changes body but it doesn't change itself. And when it is Perfect it is going to be One, not two at a time.

Is perfect only one?

One at a time. That means the thing is the same but the body changes. All right?

Yes.

Thanks.

By perfect you mean whole?

Yes. But you should know it. At the moment you don't understand perfect. When you said "perfect" you made a round shape with your hands, but do you th;nk perfect is round?

I don't know, I think …

First know what is perfect. Know the perfect and you will realize everything, and once you realize everything, you know, it's done, that's it, it's all alright. It's the same at school. When we are in the fifth class or maybe the sixth class, the master teaches us science, he teaches us really hard that this is this and that is that and this is this theory and that is that theory. And it was the same with me too, you know. When he was teaching me Archimedes principle I never understood it. But then he took me into the lab and he did it and then I understood it. So now, at the moment, many people are just imagining what is perfect, what is the shape of the perfect. Some people think it's like a lotus, some people think it's round, some people think it's square, some people think it's triangular. But that's just what people are thinking. On the back of the American dollar there is a triangle with a light. Do you think that that is perfect? People are just thinking. But what is really perfect, that is known by one who has realized. So realize it and then all the theory, all the philosophy, everything you will understand. Know it and then you will see who people really are, alright? Now you are all talking in terms of the body, because the body automatically comes into your sight. And when you think about a person

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you think about the body of that person. But realize perfection and then you will understand what it really is, right? Let's just see what happens after that. I can't tell you the whole thing about what happens because it can't be put into words. People think I am making a simple excuse, but not true. Nobody can put it into words because the perfect thing is infinite, isn't it? Maybe the Ramayana is so thick, maybe the Bible is so thick. Such a great number of books there are, and such a great number of pages. But they have all got a beginning and an end, they are all finite. So all the pages and all the books still can't describe it because it is infinite. No end to it. So know it and then you will understand.

But can't perfection manifest in more than two forms at one time?

If perfection came physically as two bodies, then the two bodies would have to be combined together with the perfect thing lying between them. Perfect is one. It has to come as one, not two. Infinity can't be divided. There is no end to it. There can be no end to it. So it can't be divided, can it? If you say it is infinite and then you say why can't it take two bodies, three bodies, or ten thousand bodies, then you are contradicting yourself. That's your confusion.

Guru Maharaj Ji, if this is the material plane, where within us is the God realm, and what space does it occupy?

If I want a bird's eye look at this house, a bird's eye view of this house, if I am standing outside, can I see it? Can I see the top of this house? No. But if I rise a little bit and rise a little bit until I reach a limit where my eye level reaches the top of this house, then. As soon as I rise up, see, this is the top of the house, and I am standing here, right? And I am rising up. I can't see the top, I can't see the top, no, no, no … yes! Now I've passed above the limit and I can see clearly. There is a limit, cross it and inside there is God, inside there is everything. Cross the limit of your understanding and you will see.

And what is there to see, then?

What do you want? If the master gives you a question paper and you ask him? "I have a question." "What is that?" he says. "How am I going to solve all those problems? Please give me the answers." The master is not going to give you the answers, is he? If he gives you a question paper and the question is, "When was Akbar born?" Then the master says, "Any question, ask." And then you stand up and say, "When was Akbar born?" The same question that was written in the question paper. He is not going to answer that question, is he? O.K.? Is he?

Guru Maharaj Ji, I have been going to another master and I would like to know …

He has told you before when Akbar was born, hasn't he? But is he going to tell you now at the question time? Is he? Simple. He says, "No." He is not going to answer the question, "When was Akbar born" at the question time, at the examina-tion time, is he? Is he? I'll tell you. Suppose there is a master who has taught for maybe one year and now he is giving the exam for the end of the year, it is in December, suppose, when you have to leave the ninth class and go into the tenth. And there is a question in the exam, "When was Akbar born?" And then he asks you if you have any questions to ask about the paper, because there are some misprints in the paper and maybe you won't understand. See? And you ask, "When was Akbar born?" He is not going to give you the answer. It's that simple. It's that simple, he has told you before, so he is not going to tell you now, at the time of the examination. That's what I want to tell you, that there is a limit which you must go above. I think I have told you in satsang. Have you heard any satsang? Have you heard any discourse? I have told you before that if you just ask, "Who is God? Where does He live? Where is He?" I am not going to answer all these questions for you or anyone else because you have to know it practically, you have to do it, you have to solve it for yourself. Theory won't work. God is not theory, God is practical. You can only understand Him practically. I have given you so many answers, but you are not satisfied. Still there are questions in those people to whom I have already given answers. God is something practical and the practical thing you cannot realize in theory. Theory is theory, theory is just a representation, it is imperfect. Anyone who has not taken this Knowledge gets surprised or maybe excited or maybe confused when he hears about it. "What is this?" he says. He has got to be confused, because he doesn't know what it is. But if he asks me and I show him, then his confusion disappears. It's that simple. People whose minds are always working, whose minds are always active, always want to ask questions – think, think, think, think, think. If someone asks you, "Where did yesterday go?" What answer are you going to give. Where did yesterday go? It was a

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whole twelve hours and where can twelve hours disappear to. I saw light yesterday and heard sound yesterday and many things happened, so how can it disappear? Where has yesterday gone? If you ask questions like this you are not going to get answers. You are only going to get confused. You might think, "Oh, this man is not clever enough to give us an answer." But the Knowledge is a practical thing, it's really practical. It cannot be realized in theory. If theory was enough, why do we make so many science labs? Big jumbo science labs with all the students doing chemistry and physics and so many things? Why does a doctor have to dissect frogs and dissect lizards and dissect dead bodies? Why? Theory's alright but you have to do the practical thing.

We say proof of the pudding is in the eating and that's what you mean the whole time.

Yes, but to make people understand I have to say it many, many, many times because, let's say one hundred people are here. Maybe one is listening to me, the other ninety-nine are thinking of something else. So when I say it one hundred times then everyone will have heard me. That's why I use many different examples because people can't even understand simple things. The master has to go through them many times.

But with Europeans, conceptionalisation is the highest aim and it's very difficult to get into the Indian monistic thinking.

But, you see, because you think it's an Indian belief, for you it becomes an Indian belief. I'll tell you one thing. I'm talking in terms of the Knowledge, I'm not talking in terms of anything Indian. When the Indian press people ask me, "Are you Hindu?" I said they are talking about my body but I am talking about the soul and the soul is not Christian or Hindu or any particular thing. See? So I have realized soul and when I talk to you in terms of soul I am talking of the perfect pure thing. Other people think it is the other way round. They think I am talking of the body but I am not talking in terms of body. People have given priority to the body, but now a thing that is real must be given priority, and that's Knowledge.

Guru Maharaj Ji, the question arises, is there any reason why perfect masters should always come from the east and not the west?

First of all, you have made a mistake because you said "perfect masters".

Yes, I mean the Perfect Master.

Alright. Now, when you think it's east, it is east. But He is not arising from the east, He is arising from the world. When people started travelling they found they had a great difficulty, so what they did is they made a compass – north, south, east and west. But before this, where did the Perfect Master come from? There was no east, west, south or north at that time, was there? That's all artificial, we only think like that today because of the compass.

But they do come from a particular region of the world.

No they don't. It is in your mind. You are thinking of east, west, north and south and of particular regions. No. The Master doesn't come like that, He comes from God, you know. He is given His ability from God, not from His mother. Don't think that it's Indian women who have any great ability so that their sons become spiritual masters. No, that's not it. The Perfect Master gets His inspiration from God. The Perfect Master has got no secularism – this religion, that religion, this place, that place. The Perfect Master has come from India and He has come from England too, and from the Middle East. You shouldn't want to see from where He has come. We are not immigration officers who want to check the passports and say, "Oh, He is Indian, He has no visa, He cannot enter." We should see the Knowledge. We do not want to see where the Master was born. It's so simple, you see, but it's just that we are so confused and do not understand. Why do you want the Master? What will make you believe in Him? You are not going to ask to see His passport, are you? "Oh yes, He has come from India," and then believe. If His passport says He has come from India, then that's alright, then He is the Master. Otherwise, He is not the Master. You are going to test Him through the Knowledge, wherever He comes from. If you are thinking of regions, then that's just subtle ideas in your mind. If you are thinking which region He is from, alright, how can you change it anyway? He just prefers to come that way. He isn't taking your advice about whether He should come from the East or the West. Wherever He comes from it is His will. If He drops out of the North Pole and comes down from there, it is still His will. If He selects India, very good. But His Knowledge is not for India. His Knowledge is for everyone. Christ came from the Middle East and went into India to spread the Holy Gospel. Why am I here? Because the Knowledge is not for

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Prem Rwat aka Guru Maharaj Ji with bodyguard in 1972 regions, it is for the whole world. It's not that God's secretary has created the West and God Himself has created the East. No, that's not it. God has created the whole thing. So why don't we open our eyes? Even in India they say "Vasu dev kutum kam" – the whole world is the family. So, if the whole world is ours, if the whole world is our family, then why should I have these subtle ideas about east, west, north and south? If we want to take this Knowledge, then it doesn't matter from where He comes. If the Perfect Master thinks and of course we can't realize what the Perfect Master thinks – but if He thinks that He will take birth in India, we Indian people should be fortunate enough to take full privilege of it, not to criticise Him but to fall on His Lotus Feet, really do satsang and pranam and understand Him. Lay flat on His Feet and say, "Alright, I surrender myself to you." We shouldn't be proud. This is an opportunity that God has given us and we should take full privilege of it. We should realize this Knowledge and not be proud, saying, "God comes from the East and I am Eastern," and all that. He gives full privilege to everyone. If He comes from the East we must still take the privilege. From childhood till old age. Understand?

Guru Maharaj Ji, have there ever been any women Perfect Masters?

Very good question, but I don't understand it because you are limiting Masters in their bodies. Why?

It's just that all the famous Perfect Masters have always been men.

What do you mean "a famous Perfect Master"? You see, God gives women a great thing, because He takes birth from women. And to equalise this, by being in the human frame of a man, and that's what we don't understand. But in my heart, personally I have great respect for women because even God has to come through a woman. So He mustn't favour women more, He must equalise this. So when He comes, He comes through a woman but takes a man's body. You see? He equalises! Understand? Now women mustn't be proud of this and shouldn't waste their time just being proud of it. They must take the privilege of it. But people do get proud – they take the Rolls and put it on a turn-table, on a glass piece, and stand and look at it. "Oh, I've got a Rolls," and never drive it. After some time it becomes junk and it is finished.

Guru Maharaj Ji, is realizing this Divine Light, what you call taking Knowledge?

Yes.

Is is it possible to realize the Divine Light only through the teachings of the Divine Light Mission?

No. We have to realize the Knowledge from

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wherever we can get it. Even if an old piece of iron can give us the Knowledge, we should take the Knowledge from it. Because we want to see God, we want to receive the Knowledge. If we want to drink water, wherever it comes from, we will drink it. Whether it comes from a refrigerator, a hand pump, a tap, a river, the lake, the sea, we want water. If an apple is going to give us the Knowledge, then we should surrender before the apple! Do not think of the body of the Master; it is the power that we surrender to, not the body. The power is making the Knowledge come from the apple, that's why we surrender to the apple.

Guru Maharaj Ji, it is possible then to receive Knowledge from a Master who is not in the flesh?

No it's not, because only a Master who is in the flesh can answer every question that you have in your mind and can help you socially and as a human being and in every way. Alright?

So it is not possible to have direct communication?

If something comes, if a power comes - right? - and starts acting on me, starts giving me the Knowledge, I'll say, "Oh, what is this acting on me?" And I'll get worried, I'll probably scream, "Oh, what is this acting on me?" But if it is something in human flesh, first He gives me an introduction and explains to me the philosophy, the theory of it, then He will reveal to me the practical, alright?

Yea, you believe it safeguards us, it saves us getting an electric shock.

If we start getting an electric shock from the wall, that's really going to shock us. We'll say, "Oh, what is this?" But if we get an electric shock from the wires, we don't get so surprised, we don't get so afraid, because there has to be current in the electric wires, hasn't there? If the current comes through the wall, we'll get really crazy, won't we? We'll start calling people and saying, "Hey, the electric current's coming through the wall." But when it comes through the wire, we don't say, "Hey, the current is coming through the wire," because it has to be there. In the same way the Knowledge has to come through a Master who is in a body. If it just jumps out of the air, we're going to freak out. Alright!

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1972

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