THE VERY INFINITE NUMBER
Guru Maharaj Ji Answers Questions in Phoenix, Arizona, January 21, 1974
Maharaj Ji, in Montrose you were saying that a very strange thing is going to happen, and the whole world will know who God is. And you said it would happen real soon.
I think it's happening right now. Don't you understand the energy crisis?
What is it? Something for people to understand: that there is a personality like God. And without Him, we are just pieces of junk, nothing else. And it's like, somebody has to really look up to it, you know. it's like, God is there, all the time. But for a person to see Him and understand Him, anyway he has to look up to Him. But it's like, God is giving us all these indications of His presence. You know? If He does …
Look. The thing is, if somebody goes and does something good, he will go and goof around all Arizona probably, saying, "I have done something good." But if he does something bad, and he blows it, you know, it means he just really blew it. Then he is going to blame it on somebody else; not on himself. So if God does something good for people, people will never understand it. People don't!
Is there going to be any big event, or cataclysmic occurrence, or some big sign …?
Even if it is happening right now, the biggest event is that you are alive. That's the biggest event. God has given you so many things, and that's the biggest gift. And it's like, if you cannot even understand that, forget it, man. There can't be anything more after that. You see, He has made everything and is sustaining it. He is sustaining you. And that's the biggest thing! This big globe and everything you see is for a man to live. Hmm? And that little thing that makes the man survive, when it leaves a man, everything is just no more for him. And it's like, all that there is in this whole universe is for that one little thing. And God has given you that. And that's the biggest event in our lives.
And if we cannot even understand that event, forget it. What else can there be -- you know? What is going to be, you know? Sun is not going to turn red or anything like that. But this is it. And you have to understand it, and realize. And people who do .
See, that's why Knowledge is so important. That's why Knowledge is so important to so many people. Because that is an event in which they actually understand that Word within inside of them. But that Word is already there, and this is what people have to understand.
If you think there is going to be a big miracle, well it's happening right now! But you have to get into it and understand it. It's not going to be a magician's trick. It's happening right now. But you have to understand it. It's the mysterious thing.
For a man to be alive, it's too common. For a man to breathe, it's too common. But he has to understand that, "Look: it's not common. It's more than that.- And this is what you have to understand. And this is the biggest event. And it all has happened for you since you were born. Yes?
Maharaj Ji, were you pleased with the way that the Millennium program went? Did you like it?
Oh sure, it was fantastic. Even if that program had been held in this little ashram, believe me, it would have been fantastic. it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. See, the
Colorado program, Montrose program, was so beautiful. So what difference does it make if it happened in the jungle or if it happened in the Houston Astrodome? It's always fantastic to describe God, to think about Him, you know, and understand His beauty. Its always fantastic. But only if you really get into it, that is. Not saying, "Oh, God kills people," and things like that.
Could any premie be wrong, he mistaken about what he is meditating upon?
Well, what difference does it make? You know, the only thing is that if he is meditating properly, he won't think about those things. And he will get the satisfaction and the Peace he wants to get. But if he is trying to meditate and is getting nothing out of it, then certainly its the wrong thing. It doesn't make a difference if somebody stamped "premie" on his head. He's still a human being, trying to reach perfection.
But what I meant was, all the premies who've got the Knowledge, meditating upon a continuous Godly enlightened -- I don't know what you call it -- thing, could any premie be wrong about that?
The thing is, if somebody gives you Knowledge, and you do not understand it, and keep on meditating on it and do not try to understand it, that's the worst thing you can do. And that's absolutely wrong. But if you have Knowledge, you understand it and you are meditating upon it, and you're getting things out of it, it's A-OK. And that's as simple as it can be, and just perfect, and just beautiful. That's the way it is supposed to be and that's the way it is.
Could you please give us satsang, Maharaj Ji?
Well, I think if there are butterflies in your minds or hearts, you better pop them out first.
Guru Maharaj Ji, do you have any advice for people who are going to get married, and how they should live in the Knowledge?
There are two things. Premies that have not moved into an ashram and don't have any intention to move into an ashram and want to get married, they live a life, they do some business where they work, and they have a job, work outside, they do meditation -- for them, the advice is just go ahead and get married, do meditation, and live happily. But the premies who are working in ashram, who are living in ashram, for them the thing is that, look: you have to understand. You have to take the right decision. Because the opportunity of service you are getting now, you will not get it later.
If you leave it now, then it's going to be like you are progressing, you are just completely progressing, and then you drop down. Because then you are looking for something else which is completely external. And then one day it's going to die out and then again you would like to come back and be in the ashram and do service! You understand?
Because, it's much better, you know, for a man to be completely, like, in a whole circumstance where he can get satsang all the time and be able to do service all the time. And this is the only thing, that if you want to get married, then make the proper decision. Make sure that you are going to stick to it. Because what I dislike is people get married, go out, in ten days they get divorced, and want to come back and live in the ashram. I dislike that. Because that's good for nothing.
And this is a silly thing, you know? So it means they are just like acting like a two-year-old baby. It means, that just proves that they are not even doing meditation. Because, up here (head) they have got bees instead of butterflies. You know that bumblebee: shooting to one point, to another point, to another point to another point. And then they just want to get married, and so that's it, and that's it. And they make their decision and they go out, you know, and then they want to come back, and …
Well, what made you come back? "Because we didn't get satisfied," and this and that, and … What's going on? Why did you get married? If you got married, stay married.
So make a proper decision before you move into some kind of thing like that. Because you are not only making a mess for the Mission; you are making a mess for yourself.
So a marriage, if the two premies involved are holy company for one another, is it a …?
Then they don't have to be necessarily married. If they are looking for holy company, then holy company may be just living in the ashram. Not necessarily being married.
Well, what's the value of marriage then?
The value of marriage is to live together, be united, live as friends, and help each other in their life if it's getting stuck sometimes. But people take it a different way, so I don't have any comments about it. No comments.
Is the amount of Grace that a person receives -- is that like due to his own effort, or is it just Grace for the sake of Grace?
God helps him, hmmm? You have to make a way for the Grace and then Grace will come. Understand? It's like, there are five people standing. They are watching you. And your car is stuck. They will only want to come up and help you when you have completely given up. Understand? There can be minor things on the road, like small ditches, that can stop the car from going. Well, not really stop the car from going, but can cause obstruction in the way. That doesn't mean you put four-wheel drive on that road. That doesn't mean that at all. But when it's completely stuck in the mud or sand, that's when you put the four by four and take the car out. That's what Grace is. You try. When you lose, and you can't go on any more, Grace will come. That's when you can even use it. You understand? That's when you can even use it. If you have a little bit of your own energy, forget it. Use it first. And then use Grace. That is an important thing, not to cheat. Yeah?
Maharaj Ji, how do we see clearly? How can we end the confusion and get the power of discrimination? I mean, I tried meditating, and service, and satsang, and it seems like you just still don't know who you are …
I'll tell you something. You take a spade, you start digging a hole. You dig it, and maybe you go through it three times. if you dig it about one foot down, you say, "Man, I've been digging this thing, and I can only reach just three feet!" See? You know where the mistake was? The thing is you have to progress, you have to keep progressing. I'm not saying that you have to keep progressing all your lifetime and then maybe some day you just might dig it three feet or six feet for yourselves. I'm not talking about chat. I'm saying that if a man is always looking back -- right? -- he will never be able to reach his destination.
Because he can walk two steps. And if he is looking back, then he is wasting one step. And maybe with each step, he is wasting about five to ten seconds. So if you calculate that, and if he has to walk like seven or eight thousand steps, see how many minutes he loses in that -- just looking back. So it's like, you are trying to figure out why that loss is there. Well, the loss is there because we have been making that little mistake.
You understand? And you have to just keep on going, and just do it with your pure heart. Not try to achieve anything out of it. Because if you will try to achieve anything out of it, I can promise you and I can guarantee you won't get anything out of it.
If you say, "Man, I've got to do this meditation because I am going to get Peace of mind," then that's what you are going to be thinking about -- not doing meditation. But if you just naturally do meditation, you are going to
automatically get it. You don't have to bother about it. So if you start bothering about it, you won't get it. Because you are bothering about that little thing you want instead of trying to actually do meditation and be free in it. You understand?
Should you have a regular program of meditation, or should you just meditate when you feel like it? Should you do an hour in the morning, hour at night, or just when you feel like meditating?
Tell me one thing. If you stop meditation, will you still be alive?
I mean formal meditation, Maharaj Ji.
No. Meditation is meditation, and you cannot say it's formal or not formal. That means you are making a mistake by saying meditation is formal. That means you don't even understand what you are talking about. Meditation is meditation. I do meditation. I don't have to particularly sit down and close my eyes and think like that and say, "Man, I am going to do meditation and that's going to be formal meditation for a half an hour, and beat it. I don't … I did it for half an hour."
A mahatma (initiator) comes into your town and says, "How are you doing, man?" "I'm just not doing fine anymore." Mahatma asks, "What's the matter?"
"Look. I have been doing meditation for half an hour, formal meditation, what you told me to do when you gave me Knowledge."
That's not the way it works. You have to get into meditation for twenty four hours. Because there is some time when I have to travel like day and night, day and night, day and night. And I can't just sit at one place and try to do it.
Supposedly there is the Vaisakhi program In india. People come to me, knock on my door from four o'clock in the morning until four o'clock in the morning. I can't sit down, not for one second. I am talking to people taking my tea. I am talking to people eating my lunch. I am talking to people … no sleep either. But if I say, "Man, I couldn't do formal meditation," forget it. I am never going to do it like that. But if I get into meditation, and instead of putting myself into stage of meditation, let meditation put me in a stage of itself, then I and that part of it can be completely one. And then it doesn't matter where I am, what I am doing, driving, sitting, eating, seeing, anything, and I am still doing meditation.
How do you do that?
Well, that's the point, that you get into it. And stop bothering! You understand? Because in this room, if everybody said, "Keep quiet, keep quiet, keep quiet, keep quiet," and just kept on saying it, I can bet you one thing. This room won't be silent, understand? Everybody has to just stop. And that's the way it goes, you know? That's the way it goes.
Maharaj Ji, does it make a difference if a person eats meat or not? Does it affect their meditation?
I know one thing. What you eat, so you become. I'm not telling you a lie. I speak from experience. I'll tell you one thing, since it's not meant for human beings to eat … and there is a very logical explanation. Maybe you even know it, you know?
The beings that are supposed to eat meat, like cats, lions, animals like that, they always lick water. They don't suck the water. They always lick it. They take their tongue out like a cat -- you have seen how a cat drinks water, and how a dog drinks it. But beings that suck water don't eat meat. And that's the way it's supposed to be.
And man sucks water, he does not lick water, since he is not supposed to eat meat. And God has provided him, and made him the king of all nature not to kill other things, but to … He has given him all the fruit in the world, anything he wants, a big head up here … So, don't you think he should try to utilize it and try to understand the beauty, and to grasp the beauty of the fruits God has given us? Because I'll tell you, it's really healthy too. Body can just really accept it. And that's the way it is. Yes?
Why wouldn't you say that when you pick a plant you're killing the plant too? I mean …
Well, because that's the thing. That little killing is meant to be for you. And that's okay.
A plant still has a consciousness.
A plant has a consciousness. But where is the consciousness?
I don't know.
See, this is the thing. Where is the consciousness?
The root has a consciousness, but where does the consciousness actually lie? Because if you take a root itself, it's in seed. You see, there is a little explanation to that. If you are eating meat, you are eating out of a being. Right? Not from a dead.
Not from a what?
Like, supposedly some people eat cows, right?
Cow comes from a life. Mother, right? And that also came from a life, and it's a life to a life to a life circle. But a plant does not come from a life. it comes from death; a seed which is dead. It doesn't need any nutrition. it's a dead seed. When you plant it, that's when it grows and gives you fruits.
What if you eat an animal that comes from a seed? I mean, an animal …
Well, I wouldn't object to that.
You could call an egg … a chicken comes from an egg. An egg is a seed, isn't it? Is an egg alive? The one you buy in store?
See, it's like, it's not like a seed. Still it's not like a seed. Because seed itself is dead. If you leave a seed around, it will never rot. If you leave an egg around, it'll rot. Because it has a life and it has a period of life.
You see, everything has come from man's own conception. If I put a man into a cell the day he is born, he will never know. He will never know, "Does a plant have a consciousness or not?" It's a man's own conception. But a man would not be able to live on meat alone. He'll have to still come to nature and ask for its fruit. But a man can live on fruits. So that's the way it is.
The very royal food people eat in India is made out of meat dishes. We also eat royal food, but it's not made out of meat dishes. It's purely vegetarian. And that's the way it is. And it's darn tasty. You might come to Dehra Dun some day. You might eat it. It's really good. Yes?
I realize that to get into the twenty-four hour meditation, it really shouldn't matter what you're doing. But I find that I have a complicated type job that tends to distract me from the meditation. And I feel that I would like to simplify the job that I'm working in. Is that wrong?
Are you living in the ashram?
No, I'm married.
Oh, I see. See, the best thing is, you know, just try to attend more satsang. As much as you can. Which would completely shoot that idea about a whole job. It's good, you know. it's good to have a response to that duty that you have. It's really good. But to get so much responsible for it that you even forget about meditation, that's not too good. Yes?
I read once where you said that the highest thing a person can do is to just be completely under the agya of the Perfect Master, and that you said that when a person is completely under your agya there's a cord so thick between the devotee and the Perfect Master that even the Perfect Master Himself can come through that cord to the devotee. And I feel like that's everybody's real desire. But I don't understand how to do it.
By meditation. That's the only thing you can do. By meditation. Just realizing more and more of that Supreme Being. You know? Because the more you realize it, and the more meditation you do, the thicker you are getting into really understanding. Because love between two people is understanding. And no understanding can make them both enemies. But when that real understanding of a Supreme Being can come into a man, it just makes that wire inches thick, feet thick. Understand?
Also, can we experience darshan inside of ourselves in meditation?
Yes. But I think you should stop bothering about that and start doing meditation. It might bring you to that point. Yes?
In the Bible it predicts that the battle of Armageddon will take place before the Millennium comes to Earth. Do you think that'll happen?
Tell me one thing. There's one thing i haven't been able to understand yet. People say, "God will come," and (I am just reviewing the whole thing) "God will come." I don't understand one thing. What I don't understand is, if God is omnipresent, how can He come and how can He go? This is what I don't understand.
Millennium is always there, and the greatest war in the world is always there -- is always there. It never has to come. It never has to go. It's almost like as omnipresent as God is! Because Millennium is within inside of you. You understand?
If you want to make everything green, everything supposedly doesn't have to be green. Only your eyes. if the eyes are covered with something green, then people can become green, everything will become green. But it's like, for that man who is just really into his ego, for him the whole world is at war, the greatest war that ever happened. But a man who has realized Peace and who is into Peace, the whole world is in Millennium for him. Yes?
Maharaj Ji, so many times a day I remember Holy Name for five minutes, and then forget it for an hour, and then remember it, and then forget and remember. How can I develop more consistency?
Just by doing more and more meditation. Because, if that is even happening, you know at least that you are remembering for a minute. You understand? And then slowly and slowly it's going to go for two, three, forty, sixty, and day and night.
A person who is very close to me is a scientist type, a "logical thinker." And he believes that all this Knowledge and meditation and all this stuff is more or less a fairy tale and a product of hypnosis, because it can't be written down in mathematical equations and proved out. Do you have any advice to me to help open him any?
Unfortunately, he is not a very good scientist.
I will agree to that.
He is not a very good scientist. Because if he is a really good scientist, then he has to understand that you cannot write an equation for infinity. if he knows infinity, can he write an equation for it? That's one of the things in math, a very practical thing. Tell him to write an equation for infinity. He won't be able to write it. Because there is no equation for infinity. And this, that thing, you know, which is like complete infinity, which is like into infinity, which is like a source of infinity, which is like infinity itself, how can you even write it down? So that is it.
The mathematics of infinity, what I'm into, cannot be expressed and cannot be understood. And mathematicians have brought it to the point to where there is a lot of confusion because they can't comprehend it. And it's there …
It is somewhere.
It isn't deep enough.
But see, the thing is, there is one point where you cannot go on anymore. And that is that exact same point which cannot be written on a blackboard. It will not fit onto a blackboard; it will not fit in the series of one to zero. You see? It will just not fit into that series. Because see, there is a number below zero. And nobody can write it down. There is number. And that number, that very number …
See, its like, in the air there is something that cannot be seen but can be written down. in the same way, there is number, after all the numbers have finished and before all the numbers start. And that very number is the very infinite number. And it cannot be written on the blackboard. Because a human mind cannot reach to the comprehension of that equation.
But there is something like that. And that thing is for us to know.
Who are we to try to put it onto a blackboard? Even Lord Krishna says that it's unspeakable. You cannot speak that Word. Even the Bible, when it's describing about the Word, it just says this much: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God." Just, you know, it's in those words. That's all. Can't even write that Word down, what it is. it's just by saying there is a figure. What is the figure? They cannot write it down. There was a sum of money transferred. What was the sum of money? They cannot write it down.
And the Word. What is that Word? He did not write it down, because it cannot be written down. But it was there; it is there. But the thing is, when we say, "no-thing," when we say, "nothing," that means no thing. it you put a dash between "no" and "thing" it proves there is something which we do not know about. And that thing, because we do not know about it, we cannot even write it down.
For an Indian person who does not know how to say "professional," that does not mean the word doesn't exist just because he cannot speak it. The word exists. He cannot speak it because he does not know it. And a person who knows this Knowledge, for him it exists. But it does not exist if you want to put it on a blackboard. Because where can you start it from? Because infinity does not have a beginning and does not have an end. And thus, to start it from four, zero, one, two -- you can't. And to start it with the mark, just like that (makes infinity sign), is the answer and the equation and the beginning and the end of itself. So where will you start it from?
Where will we end? Forget it, you know. It's like, that's why it cannot be written down. Otherwise if there would have been something like that, we probably could have written the equation down. And what really, for man, what infinity is, is "G" plus "M" is equal to infinity. When God and man become one, that's infinite. Because man is finite, and God is infinite. When finite is completely merged into something that is infinite, it's equal to infinite. Yes?
Guru Maharaj Ji, slowly I feel myself kind of withdrawing, you know, from relationships with people, and I feel myself trying to not have that anymore, just be inside of myself. And I feel like that's better, you know, and that then my relationships will be better too. But I'm afraid that maybe I'll become cold or something. I don't know, I just feel funny about it.
No, you won't become cold. You will be okay. But you will be strong enough to have much more of a relationship, you know, make much more of a friendship, and to have much more friendship with people than just be like a person, you know. You'll be able to be open much more. It's like, you have just gone in to make that hole of Love bigger. When you come back, it's like you can give much more Love to people.
You know, if you want the answer to all of your questions, i have one. I don't know all of your questions, but I have an answer for all of them. The answer is that you must do meditation. Because you come to me and you try to ask me this question, try to get an answer. Why? Because I know it. And how do I know it? Because of meditation. You try to do meditation; you get your answers.
So I believe in being self-progressed. Okay? And just please keep on doing meditation. Because that's what you really need.
Maybe some people think, "Oh, he is just talking a bunch of baloney." But I'm not. You really need it. It's something you will understand later on, when you have crossed that stage. But you will just understand how much you needed it. Thank you.