Go Beyond Theory
Guru Maharaj Ji / Questions & Answers / August 6, 1971 / San Francisco
Will you tell us how we should care for the Knowledge that you will plant in us?
First have that Knowledge; then it will speak for itself. Yes?
Is there anything we have to do beyond asking?
Realize. Realization. First ask and then go beyond it - that is realization of that Knowledge of your soul.
Through what methods can we realize?
First go to a spiritual Master, to a true realized soul. Have a heart filled with devotion and pure love. Go to him. Request him. And then he will give you that Knowledge.
Will meditation replace the need for satsang when we can't get satsang?
Well, that is up to the management, you see. But you have to do meditation regularly. Satsang has its own value and meditation has its own value. Both things lead to one path. But it will be up to my management to put an initiator here, so that he can give you regular satsang. Yes?
What do you feel about the other paths?
I have never gone to those paths. How can I feel them?
Do you reject or accept them as being paths as well, or …
I have never been there. I don't know what they are. I don't know whether there is day or night there; I don't know.
How do we become devoted to you?
When I will give you something. You have no relation with a shopkeeper. But as soon as he gives you something, he becomes your shopkeeper and you become his customer. As soon as I give you that Knowledge, you will become my devotee and devotion will flow. When I give you something. That is Knowledge.
But to get the Knowledge, don't I have to be devoted first?
A little. When you buy a car, you don't invest the entire cost. A little down payment. And then, when you get the car, you pay the rest. When do you initiate individuals?
When they become full; when I see that it is okay. Have you ever driven a diesel car? If you take a diesel car and switch it on, it won't start. Now, as soon as it heats up, it will automatically start. The same with this. As soon as the love will fill up, we will have the initiation. Yes?
Can a person come to a Satguru and be initiated just by being there?
If a washerman is sitting and is not soaking his clothes in water and putting soap on them, but just sitting beside them, he can't wash his clothes. Even if he is sitting near it, he will have to put them in water. Like Arjun. Arjun was a companion of Krishna; he grew up with him. But he gained nothing. As soon as he was initiated, he became his devotee and he became his Master.
But if Krishna wanted to give him Knowledge …
"Wanted" is another thing. But he never did that. If the sky wanted to be like the earth and the earth wanted to be like the sky … But it is never so.
But can you give Knowledge without a person wanting it? Or asking?
Why will I give? He will ask or come to me for Knowledge. He will have a desire for Knowledge when he has got some love. And I will give him Knowledge then, when that will be overfull, or will be full. Not before that.
Guru Ji, is there a distinction to be made between Knowledge and Love, or are they the same?
Love is a medium. Knowledge is itself. Love is a medium through which you try to have affection on one thing. "I love this chair" - my love is a medium to have this chair with me. "I love Knowledge." "I love God." It is a medium through which I will try to bring that thing nearer to me. But there is a great difference between me and my shadow. Through my shadow you can see that I am something. Something is existing; that's why a shadow is there. You can know. When there is a Love, you can bring it quite near. Your full attention will be drawn toward it.
Will we be self-realized through this Knowledge in this lifetime?
Yes! You will be realized through this Knowledge in this life. That is a definition of this Knowledge. Otherwise what is the use of this Knowledge? Anybody can become that in a second life. But through this Knowledge, we become it now, as soon as we get that.
How can I experience that Love more completely?
When you are initiated you will experience this Knowledge. See, when you have that Knowledge, you will feel what Love is. As long as I am sitting in my house, I cannot see my house. But as soon as I go outside, I will see the whole house. Until I am in Love, I can't see Love. I can't experience it. But as soon as I get to Him, where I cannot be separated again, then I see Love there. I experience it.
Guru Maharaj Ji, can you explain what makes somebody ready for initiation?
Satsang makes somebody ready for initiation. Satsang is a generator which will generate firm devotion in him, Love towards that thing in him. I go to see the Taj Mahal, I am standing in the main entrance. I am seeing it. A guide comes and tells me that this is a very old, ancient building - my love increases more. I want to see that ancient thing. "This was raised by Shah Jahan in memory of his wife" - it becomes more. Then, "this was made by an artist whose hands were cut" - it becomes more. The same love is produced more and more by the introduction.
Satsang is an introduction through which man realizes whether he has a need or not. I say, "Disneyland! We should go to Disneyland." Now, "We should go to Disneyland" - our love was created. But, "Disneyland is beautiful" - more love is created. "Disneyland has got so many types of things" - more is created. And as I hear more and more, more and more is created. As I hear satsang which is all filled with the introduction of Knowledge - what it is more and more Love comes.
Guru Maharaj Ji, can you explain the difference between initiation into Knowledge and the full realization of that Knowledge that you were initiated into?
Yes. Initiation is union. And Knowledge is that pump. Have you seen a tube well? Have you seen the pipe? So Knowledge is the tube well and the pipe is just throwing out water - that is initiation. Knowledge will be the source for that pipe even, for initiation even. When a man will be initiated, when a man will form an initiation, there will be Knowledge. So anyhow, we have to listen to satsang for anything.
Guru Ji, is there a difference between the Knowledge that you have to give us and scriptural knowledge?
A great, great difference. Take a piece of paper. Write "water" on it. And take a glass of water, and put it in front of it. What is the difference between the written paper "water," and that which is kept in the glass? There is a great difference, isn't there? One is only written; it can help nothing.
So we don't need to read scriptures?
Well, you read them for information. It is said that the train leaves at that station and that time - you won't leave that station by reading that book. You have to go there. But it tells you about something.
The reason I ask is I have a problem - I read the Bible and the Bible tells me to go in one direction. Then I read Buddhist scriptures and he says to go to nirvana. Then I read Hindu scriptures and they say to go to samadhi. I don't know which way to go.
But you are reading scriptures? Yes.
That's why it is said that if you try to give water to all the petals and don't give it to the root, the plant won't flourish. But if you give it to the root and not to the petals, the plant will flourish. When a man will have initiation, when he will have that Knowledge, then he will reach to samadhi.
So actually, you can say that it is an incomplete thing, sort of, that they have written. Because they can't write Knowledge. In Gita, Krishna has described all about it, as it is described in the Bible, as it is described in all other scriptures. But they only write their interpretation; they can't give Knowledge. Gita can't be a Krishna. Because before Krishna, there was Rama, and there was Ramayana. But there was Ramayana; then what was the need of Krishna to come? Or before Rama, there were some more scriptures, Vedas. What was the need of Rama to come? Vedas could help people. But there was a great need for him also. Because they were not the main source which could help people. Give some books to your child. A B C D is written in them all the way to Z but those letters can't help him. He needs the master to guide him. How to pronounce it? What is it? Before a child is given test tubes to experiment on something, first he is taught theory. "This is Archimedes' Principle," or this or that. He is shown on the practical table, that this is what it is.
The Young Prem Rawat aka Maharaji and Guru Maharaj Ji and Balyogeshwar
And then ultimately, when he reaches to that stage where he realizes everything, when he has completed his theory part, he is given the practical experiment to do.
So before doing that practical experiment, theory was very essential. Because if we just read books, we will find some indications, identifications. What is the identification for a Guru, we will find in books and scriptures. And the reason there is the need of a Guru, you will find in scriptures. Ramayana says that without a Guru you cannot receive that Knowledge and without Knowledge you cannot have that experience of Peace, which you want to gain. And what is the identity for Guru - it is that when a Guru will come in our life, he will dispel away darkness and bring Light in us. So before entering that part, we have to do theory. But suppose a boy is only reading theory and not doing practical things. He can't work. He can't work!
Tell a boy, "Move the gears and leave the clutch, and press the accelerator." This is theory. But he can't learn to drive a car by this only. He has to catch the steering and experience it by himself, what it is. So we have to go with theory but not remain only in theory. From kindergarten class 'til Bachelor of Arts, you speak and write sentences. And all the sentences are made from A to Z, from the alphabet. But if you only remain in kindergarten class, "A to Z, A to Z, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP, ABCDEF …" - if you only read that, can you reach a B.A.? You can't. You have read it - now leave it; now proceed further. You have read it - now leave it; proceed further. Gain some more knowledge about practical life. Don't remain only in theory.
People today read the Gita, people today read the Ramayana, and think that they become very holy. But that is not it. They are only theoretical. They are in kindergarten class; they can't reach the
B.A. If they want to reach the B.A. degree, they will have to leave that kindergarten class. Reading Ramayana, reading all the books - they will have to leave that, and go to a further, higher stage, which is beyond this materialistic world.
If you are very interested in reading and writing books and scriptures - okay, read them. But you can't be helped by those. On a map it may be written that "Here is a crossing and you go left and then you follow the right way, and then again left, and then again have a turn and go." So just read that and don't drive your car - can you reach that point? You have read it. You have followed the instruction; now go. Drive your car that way. They have written, "Go to a Guru if you want Knowledge. Without Guru you cannot attain that Knowledge." So go to him; go to a realized soul.
When a blind man catches my hand and I am following him - I am not guiding him - where will he take me? Into that well! Because he never knows if there is a well or not. So if the guru is not realized, where will he take us? To that stage where we also will not be realized. Because he never knows himself. Many people come to me and ask, "Will you please tell us what we are doing wrong? We are doing our devotion as we should. We will not be held responsible for that. We won't be doing anything wrong. Because we are doing what a devotee should do." But are they doing perfect devotion?
You see, you are turning that ignition switch, that key. When will the car start? You are trying to do everything, but the car is not starting. What is the matter? There is some trouble with that car; go and remove that trouble. Search for that trouble: "What is that trouble in there?"
Datatrey was a man in India and he tried 24 gurus. And the 25th gave him this Knowledge, completely satisfied him. He even kept on changing his gurus because he said, "This is not a Guru. He is not giving me that Knowledge." And he went on changing, until the 25th. The 25th Guru was a realized soul and he gave it. (That never means you also have to change from 24 gurus! Maybe you will be in a state where you won't even find the 25th. It may just as well be that the first will give you that Knowledge.)
So this is it. People say, "How will we realize whether this is Knowledge or not?" It is a very simple identity. As soon as you will drink water, what will happen? You will quench your thirst. You will feel that your thirst has been quenched. As soon as Knowledge will come, you will feel that you are getting Peace.
So any more questions?
What is evolution?
Evolution is something from the ideas of man. The theory of evolution does not fit with God, the Creator, because the theory of evolution says that everything was made by itself. But God has created them. So I do not believe in the theory of evolution. People say, "First man was monkey. Then ultimately he went back to the point where he was a small reptile." From where was the reptile created? Who created that? Somebody must have put it here. And the man who put that thing there was the Creator. He was the real Creator.
So today, that is a stage with people. They are like sheep. Where a sheep will go, all will follow there. There is a type of fish where if one goes, every fish will follow. So this is the stage of people. We all are slowly and slowly becoming owls, leaving Light and loving darkness. Light is One. Truth is One. And this is all darkness that we see. Even in this light, there is darkness. So what you think is light - it is absolute darkness. Have you seen a lamp? There is darkness under it, and light over. This is the nature of this world. This is what people try to do.
So we have to get that Knowledge from Satguru. And there is never a time when Satguru is not in this world. But ignorance, simple ignorance - purposely-created ignorance and simple ignorance - is keeping us away from that state. If we search, we will be able to go there. We will be able to find him. People tried and they were able to reach the moon. Before they tried, were they able? No. But when they tried, they were able. Try, and you will find Satguru, a true realized soul. But have you ever tried?
There was an astronaut - he made a beautiful model of all the planets. They all worked like real ones, one going from here to there, there to here; everything looked very real. Just small, you see; a mini-model. So he called his friend and said, "I have made a beautiful model. Please come and see that." (His friend never believed in God.) He came there and saw: "Oh, you have made a beautiful planet, a beautiful model."
He said, "I have not made this. This was put there naturally. This has been put there naturally - I have not made it."
So the friend said, "It cannot be possible. Somebody has made it; that is why it is there."
So his friend replied, "This is only a model, which you are not believing can be made without a creator, without a maker. But what is real - how can that be put by evolution? The simple models cannot be put without creator; then how can those natural things be put without a Creator?"
When He created all knowledge, why did He create ignorance also?
To differentiate. To bring out the sun, He had to create night. To bring out Peace, He had to create "dispeace," dissatisfaction of mind. To bring out the beauty of sunset and sunrise, He had to get darkness there. As long as there is darkness, you can't have sunset and sunrise. So you see, to make both things in such a way, to see that "this is it" and "this is it," to create difference, he had to make both things. Yes?
Why did He create the law of opposites?
What is the sun? How do you realize that the sun gives light? When there was darkness, then you realized. If there were no darkness, you couldn't have realized that the sun was giving light.
That wasn't what I asked you.
I'll tell you. I am trying to explain it to you. So to try to bring out the sun's light, the sun's glory, He had to put darkness there. To bring out the "disopposite," He had to bring opposite there. It became very compulsory for Him to put it there.
But why did He create opposites? Why did He have to create day and night at all?
He had to create day and night for you, for all these human beings, for all His people! So at day they can work and at night they can sleep. And I can have rest.
Why did He create His people?
He created His people for some purpose! And that's why He is annoyed with His people, that they are not trying to find Him, that they are trying to find out why He created all this, and not working on that. That's why He punishes people, makes them donkeys and that washerman or that potteryman puts a whole load on them, and donkeys carry them in the summer. The sun is full and shining over them. They can't even rest. Then they say, "Why was this created?"
Somebody says, "Why was the sun created?" And if he even tries, he can't realize it. Come and realize what the sun is. Go nearer to the sun and ask him, "Why were you created?" You can't do that. As soon as you will go nearer to the sun, you and your bones will be burned to ashes. So for that thing, we try to escape and ask a realized soul. But that is not a question to be asked, actually. That is why.
It's not to be asked?
Well, it was created for your benefit. This world was created for you people to live in and that's why you are living. This world was created for men, human beings; that's why they are living.
Then why did man have a need to create -
It was His Will, not yours. It is His personal secrecy. It is His secrecy, why He has done that.
What can you say about karma?
Karma? As long as there is no Knowledge, believe in karmas, because you will be "overhanded" by karmas. But as soon as you attain that Knowledge, karmas are finished. The results of previous karmas are finished. Yes?
When I have received Knowledge, will I be able to see beyond duality?
What do you mean by duality?
The principle of light and dark. Will I be able to see the oneness inherent in duality?
Yes. Because you will see the creation of One in all, so you will realize. You will be able to see. Yes?
I feel I have attachments that cause me pain and I don't know how to rid myself of these attachments.
Any sort of attachments will be removed when a man will have Knowledge. But even then one attachment will be left. All the attachments will be removed; only one attachment will be left.
And is it good to have any attachment?
Any is wrong, but one attachment is very blissful. Is that attachment the attachment to God? Yeah!
Do I seek Knowledge with attachments, to rid myself of attachments, or do I rid myself of attachments when I receive Knowledge?
Before you kick a motorcycle, you place your foot over the kicker. But when it is started, you remove your foot, understood? You receive the Knowledge in these attachments, but then after that, only useful attachments are left - not other stuff. And if they are left also, they are left in a resisted way, that you can't call attachment. You will have desire for food so that your stomach may be filled. You will have sort of a small, small, small, little, little attachment to everything in this world. But resisted attachment. Resistance will be there. More and more resisted. What is good for you - only that will be sent out. Yes?
When will I have this Knowledge bestowed on me?
When your heart will be filled with devotion. Yes?
Satguru Ji, is it possible to become entranced with something else in your spiritual development, with a certain stage you're at, and forget your final
The Young Prem Rawat aka Maharaji and Guru Maharaj Ji and Balyogeshwar
goal, and not recognize your final goal?
Your soul, you see, is only attracted to God; nothing other than that.
So my soul will always push me on towards realization?
Yeah. But your mind will try to push you out. Soul has got, you see, that feature that can put you in that place. Now this mike - if you will try to plug this mike in a Wollensak tape recorder, you won't be able to. Because it has got another feature; and that mike has got another feature, another plug. So this soul has got a feature that can only fix in God. Nowhere else. So it can only be attracted and fixed with God. Yes?
Is it possible for a man to realize his past lives before he is God-realized?
What will you do when you will realize your past? Suppose you even realize your past; what good will it do?
Well, I just want to know if it's possible.
To see maybe if other people that have said that they know what their past life is, if that's valid.
You eat for the future, you see for the future, you drink for the future, you live for the future. And you want to see the past?
Why are you asking, then?
Well, I'd like to know. I'd like to know if it's possible.
You see, people are very interested in realizing that past thing. I tell them, "Go and read a book. That will be more interesting than realizing that past thing." What has passed has passed. Now it cannot come back again.
Yeah, that's true …
Then what is the good? What is the need to waste your time and energy?
The future is the outcome of the past, though, and sometimes …
Well, suppose in a past life you know that you were dead once. Can you stop your death now? You know that you were dead in the past,
sometime. Can you stop your death now?
How can I recognize my true Guru?
I'll tell you: as soon as Guru will come, he will give you Knowledge. As soon as you will ask him, he will give you that Knowledge and by realizing that Knowledge, darkness will be dispelled away and Light will come to you. You will feel the Peace.
So what does one do? Every time you run into somebody that you think is your Guru, ask him to lay some Knowledge on you? And then, just something happens that you …
No, no, it is never that if you will go to a shopkeeper, then you will ask him for Knowledge. That is not it. When you go to a spiritual Master, ask him for Knowledge. And if he gives you that Knowledge and your darkness is dispelled away, and Light comes to you, then it is okay. But if it is not, then he is not a Guru.
I find it sort of confusing, because there's all these different paths and spiritual trips going on. And a lot of them are saying, "This is the way," and "I am the supreme Guru," and it becomes very confusing sometimes.
To you! Because it is your laziness, you see? You are basing on whatever other people will say. Go and realize yourself what it is. Go and see. Don't be lazy, so lazy that you are not going and requesting Knowledge and realizing something. Go! Feel. Realize what is Truth. Sometimes people - you see, what people have done! People have crucified Jesus. Who crucified Jesus? Did the angels come from heaven and crucify Jesus? No, people. They were people who crucified Jesus. Don't believe in people. People are terrible. You can take out the history and read.
Do you consider yourself to be a person?
I am what I am - I think so. Yes?
What do you know about life on other planets?
Why? What good will it do me? No, I don't want to. I don't want to even realize the life on other planets, because I am living on this planet. I am concerned about this and not others. I have to keep on with my business.
I'm somewhat confused. Does everybody have their own Satguru? I understand there are a number of Satgurus in the world.
There are not Satgurus. When you name it as "Satguru," then it is only one.
There is only one Satguru at one time?
Mmm! Everybody is not a teacher. Remember that. People who teach at a school are named as teachers. Those who will really give that true Knowledge are known as Satgurus. And there is only one. Yes?
Guru Maharaj Ji, can you impart the Knowledge of my true inner being to me? Can you impart the Knowledge of Truth to me?
Can you give us some satsang now on true happiness?
I was telling about true happiness, but the doubts were resisting. Truth is unexpressed and inexplicable, because it is the matter of experience. Nobody can explain Truth. It's a matter of experience. Experience what it is. Yes?
You say that we are living in darkness. Is doubt itself a part of this darkness?
I have some friends and they believe very much in evil forces, and that you have to fight against them.
That is purposely-created ignorance. That is purposely-created ignorance. Have you seen people dreaming? They think that they are kings when they dream. Are they kings? It is a purposely- created thing.
Maharaj Ji, when you say purposely-created, by whom, or by what?
By ourselves (laughter).
With what purpose?
Just for nothing. Because the human being has to do something besides work in his office. So he will do that.
It's a hobby?
A hobby which is - yes, a hobby. Some people have nothing to do. They will do that.
Like black magic and people who are witches and all that kind of stuff. They manifest the bad spells on people - this is all the same kind of idea you're talking about? It's like purposely-created ignorance?
Go and talk to those people. See, there was a devotee of my father in Delhi, and he used to do meditation. And he became very perfect in it. He made it in such a way that even the glass of water, you see, had to rise and come before his table. So he became very proud of himself. So he invited Maharaj Ji to have a dinner at his house. Maharaj Ji came. He was sitting, and he said, "Maharaj Ji, sit down there in the chair." Maharaj Ji said, "Okay, I will sit down there. Don't bother. But why are
you feeling so proud of yourself? The thing for which you are feeling proud will dispel now." And he went away. And after that, nothing happened for that man. Then he came to Maharaj Ji; that rich man had turned into beggar. And then he has died now. These are called ridhis and siddhis, but magics and all these things, are not true. And it is said, "Where this Knowledge is, no evil can come near that."
How can we help one who believes he or she is possessed by an entity, a spirit, of good or bad?
From a spirit? See, one cannot be free from the soul until he dies. But we can realize that spirit, that soul. Because soul is the source through which we are now existing. As soon as that source will go from us, we will be in the graveyard. So we have to realize that source, where the source was. That is the mystery of this whole book. There is a book, you see, and letters are printed in it. What you are seeing now - all are letters. Human beings, houses, materialistic things. Nature is a photo in that, a description of that nature. But know the source of it; then you read the whole book.
A friend of mine - his grandfather committed suicide. He believes his grandfather is possessing him, is making him do things. How can we break this?
He thinks that, you see. Thinks it.
Well, how can we make him stop thinking that, make him believe that it is no longer true? Is it possible?
When we realize this Knowledge, you see, evil spirits run away from this. They are very terrified of this Knowledge. Because this Knowledge will not only make them run away, but if an evil spirit or an evil thing comes in the hand of this Knowledge, it will grind it into a flower. And then not only make it a flower, but burn it. And then burn its ashes also. Then mix it with the ocean, so it cannot come back. So they are very afraid. Yes?
And you can give us this Knowledge? How?
How? That is up to me. That is up to me! Ask for that Knowledge - I will give it to you.
Okay, I am asking you.
Okay, I will give it to you! Yes?
I would like it also. I would like to experience it. I don't really trust words very much. And I don't trust ideas, because I've been thinking about things all of my life. But the only thing that I trust is what I experience. The only thing that I know is what I experience, and I want to experience that Knowledge.
When we receive this Knowledge, will this bring us to oneness with God?
Union with Him. Yes?
Do you have any words you would like to say to seekers in the Bay Area? We have a recording here that we are going to play on a radio program tomorrow.
Yes, I have a message. They are quite lucky that they are dwelling in the beautiful Bay Area. They are realizing the nature of sea. And they are realizing the creation of that Lord. But until they see God, that creation is just like that for them: as food without salt. Man is without Knowledge, as food without salt. Food without salt looks the same as food with salt, from outside; but when you eat it, it is tasteless. From the outside, when we look, it's very much as it should be. But as we feel and experience it, there's no taste in this life.
God has created so much for people. But what have people created for Him? God has created so much for people - ocean, air, water, earth, plants, food, so much for people. But what have people created for Him? Not even a simple true Love. So they are going over their credit. So if they can give simple Love to Lord … Because God says: Give me Love and I will give you Peace. I need that Love. I am of Love, and I need Love to give Peace. I can't just take out part and let it be like that. I can fill that part with Peace. I can take out Peace from myself and give it to you. But I need Love to fill that part again.
So we need to realize the nature and let this world know what God is. And when they realize God, His nature, they will experience how kind God is. Because they can't experience it now. See, they are just experiencing what He has made, but when they will realize Him …
See, the ocean can be traveled over. Somebody can travel over the ocean. And he can find the other side of it. But His merciful Ocean - nobody can find the other side of that Ocean. People can go to the depth; but in that merciful Ocean, nobody can go. Ships sail and get drowned in that ocean. But in that Ocean, if a man goes and gets drowned, from drowned he will come up; he will not be drowned in that Ocean. That is the merciful Ocean of God. But realize why He had created it for them; who He was. And they will realize why it was all created for them once they realize Him, His beauty, His nature. This is what I wanted to tell the Bay Area people.