Prem Rawat's Teachings about Apostasy (a Manmat) - In His Own Words
I don't think that Prem Rawat has ever publicly used the word 'apostasy'. It is a subject that he does not discuss though some of his followers and some of his organisations' web sites have explained any public mention of it as being caused by inexplicable disgruntlement or mental sickness in the apostate. He was more forthright in the 1970's though he used terms like 'manmut' and his followers spoke and sang of "Leaving the Lotus Feet." and "jumping off the boat" and "unlit matches." He spoke of apostates as rotting vegetables, milk that's gone off, a corpse eating and apostasy as he very worst thing you can do, like commiting suicide, the pits, the backroom of hell and a sin.
Rawat himself is an apostate as he was disowned, disinherited and deposed by his mother, elder brothers and the Mahatmas and administrators of Divine Light Mission India and forgotten by the millions of Indian followers he once claimed to have.
Maggie Shivers, a Yale student and former member of the Divine Light Mission gave testimony before the Judiciary Committee of the House of Delegates in Maryland on March 10, 1982. "The things I did and believed in were not rational. We were told that if we left we would shatter into a million pieces," she said before breaking down in tears as she tried to finish her testimony. Janet Liebman Jacobs in Divine Disenchantment: Deconverting from New Religions quotes a former premie, Mark saying, "Even when the workshops happened, it was just the subculture being exposed. Maharaj Ji was still the source of creation, the Lord incarnate on the planet. He continued to be that way and what they said was that his detractors were monmuts; they had surrendered to their minds. A monmut means someone who has totally surrendered to his mind. And we weren't supposed to talk to them or have anything to do with them.
Denver Ashram, Colorado, 18 September 1971
Why is it that true Knowledge, in most cases, brings joy to people but in some people it drives them to despair?
God helps those who help themselves, you know that. Patients who don't want to eat the medicine are always in despair. This is true. I can give you medicine that costs a million dollars - if you don't eat it, it won't cure you. The smell of the medicine won't cure you. You have to eat the medicine. The patients, the people who don't meditate upon this Name are always disappointed; they cannot get a hope in their lives.
And It Is Divine, Volume 1, Issue 1, November 1972
December 21 1971
do meditation. Because meditation is important. You are surviving, you are alive here at this moment because of meditation. No other thing is making you alive now; only that meditation, only that Name, only that Holy Word, only that vibration which is true is making you alive. Then why ignore it? Why leave it? Always do meditation; that is the damn important thing for your life. If you leave it, you cannot survive. You cannot survive physically, and on none of the planets can you survive, because it is important. It is a communication between you and your Lord that you form. And this communication is very important for a devotee to organize, and this can only be going very smoothly if you are regularly doing meditation.
Élan Vital, Summer 1978, Volume II, Issue 2
2nd May 1974
But I think the premies who are not meditating, you know what they are doing? They're getting three tons of vegetables in their house and not eating it. You know what that means? When it'll start rotting, phew, it's going to rot like a hell. I mean, if it was one vegetable, one teeny weeny vegetable, it would dry out somewhere in the closet, doesn't even matter. But if you had three truckloads of them, and they start rotting, man, you are looking for some real trouble. And that's the way this Knowledge is. But this Knowledge, it's like you've got the vegetables of the whole universe with you. And if you don't meditate, can you imagine how it's going to rot?
Golden Age, Thursday, June 8, 1974
Cosmopolitan Hotel, Denver, Colorado, May 6 1974
Because if you do not meditate on this Knowledge, it's like it is there, it's gonna do you no no good. Like, I was giving that example the other day that, you know, you can have one truckload of vegetables, and you can have one pocketful of vegetables, and you can have one okra. And if that one okra rots in your house, it doesn't matter so much because you can just put it right down the drain. But if you have three truckloads of that okra in your house, and they start rotting, you might as well forget it, because you won't be able to blow them down the sink. The sink will clog, and then there'll be more rotting going on. And it's like, if it was a small small mantra, and of course it'll do you no good either - if there was a small small mantra which was of no good, was not able to give this mind peace, and it would rot if you would not meditate on it, that's okay. But since you have received this Knowledge, I think the very foremost duty for you is to go and meditate.
Golden Age, No. 17, January 1975
Los Angeles, 14th June 1974
As soon as you do it, before you know, before you know (snaps fingers) you're right back there where you should be that you came to and nothing happened and so it's like Knowledge is like our first concern. You have to understand it. If you do not understand it we start sticking our foots into these different things we'll be a big mess that's all. Big, big, huge mess. I mean you take some fruits and vegetables, vegetables and you put them in this pan and you put 'em on the, on the stove and you tell seven different people to cook it, you'll end up as a great big mess and nothing else because it's like everybody comes and does something to it and everybody comes and does something and if a man will make that out of his life he'll be a big mess.
Perfect Master Tape 019
Denver, 8th July, 1975
Everything in this world is going; nothing's stable. But one thing is. And if we find that one stable thing, if it is in our life, and we leave it, we have no right to call anybody else 'stupid' or 'dumb'. It's like, if I am a lame person and I am walking along and find a stick, and I throw it away, I don't have to go around saying how dumb anybody else is. I, myself, am very, very stupid, because I found the support that I was looking for, I got it, and I just chucked it out the window. So realize the Knowledge and the Grace
For Your Inspiration newsletter, August 1975
Pacific Guru Puja, Opera House, Sydney, Australia, October 19th, 1975
Let me advise you about something. If this is what you are going to end up doing anyway, I suggest that you just don't even meditate. You see, there is also one more problem. There are disadvantages to things as well as advantages. Of course, in Knowledge there are very few disadvantages and a lot more advantages, because the greatest advantage of them all is there, in this Knowledge. But there is a disadvantage too. It's like, if you have milk, which is very good for you to drink, very nourishing, and very tasty - I personally don't like it, but that's what other people say - and if you don't drink it, boy, it tastes and it smells very, very bad after a little while. It becomes worse, and worse, and worse, and worse, and worse, till you just can't stand it anymore. That's the way this Knowledge is. It sits inside of you, it is there, you have understood that experience, and that thing that drove you to this Knowledge is striving harder, and harder, and harder, and harder within inside of you to have that experience, but you are not having that experience because you are not even meditating. I tell you, some premies just leave, and say, "Okay, we call it all quits." Then after a year or so they come back, and boy, do they look in bad shape - in and out, both ways. Mind has become a lot stronger in that time. So beware of mind. It's a very, very tricky thing, and it can trick you any time, it can get you any time. It's a loaded gun, and it'll go off any time. So just keep on meditating, just keep on truckin'.
And It Is Divine, Volume III, Issue 4, Winter 1976
Hans Jayanti Festival, Orlando Florida, Evening November 9, 1975
So when Lord comes to us, accept Him. And Lord is here. He has always been here. How can we make a statement, "The Lord is gone," and then turn around and say, "Lord is omnipresent"? We are contradicting ourselves. He has always been here. He has always been saving us, but it's us who pull out of His shelter. It's us who leave His home and go out and wander in the woods and get lost. But even when we do, He comes along and He saves us, He protects us. Well premies, that's the glory of Him. I just want to caution you about something. Because the way He is, the way He does His things, He just might decide not to go around lookin' for you. And if He does, you have had it. That's it. It's called "finito."
Divine Times, December 1975 Volume 4, Number 10
DUO Headquarters in Denver, Colorado, December 1975
This is a fact. I am not about to go into this world and go "Kaboom" and let this whole world have Knowledge. I'm not about to go like this and say, "Okay, everybody has Knowledge". I'm not doing that. And you know that. Otherwise, I would have done it a long time ago. No Perfect Master in this world did that, though they had the capacity to. If Jesus had the capacity to come back after He was dead, it wouldn't have been very hard for Him to go like this, and everybody would have Knowledge. But He did not do that. Nobody has done that. And neither am I about to go and do it. The reason is because then you will be left without a service. And if you are left without service, then it's like vegetables are very nice things, but when you leave them out in the open, they start to rot very fast. And when they start to rot very fast, it becomes very hard. There are bugs and insects and flies all over the place.
Golden Age, No. 27, March 1976
Sao Paulo Brazil, 4 January 1976
If you receive Knowledge, and then you don't do meditation, that's really bad. It can really be very, very bad. And I'll tell you why. Vegetables are very good for you, very healthy, very natural. You can go and buy about three truckloads of vegetables and put them into a room. But if you don't eat them, you know what'll happen? They'll start rotting. And when vegetables start rotting, they make a big mess. Though they are beautiful, they are good, if you don't utilise them in the right way, in the right time, they can be very, very bad. So it's the same way with Knowledge. Knowledge is very beautiful, and it is what you want. But if you don't do meditation, it'll rot, it'll start rotting inside of you and it'll be very, very bad. You'll be confused, and that's the way it is. It's very hard for anybody to forget an incident. Once you have experienced such a glory, such a beautiful Knowledge and then leave it, it becomes very hard. It becomes very impossible. But if you are interested, and if you want Knowledge, then you can have it.
The Golden Age Number 30, June 1976
Stockholm, Sweden, 30 May, 1976
And so, I hope you understand the message I'm trying to convey to you, that to realise Knowledge, it's really important to do satsang, service, and meditation. If you want to realise Knowledge, then this is what you will have to do. If you don't want to realise Knowledge, you don't have to worry about any of those things, just sit back and have a cup of coffee and that's about it. And that'll be the leading of your life from then on: it'll just be nothing.
he Golden Age Number 33, October 1976
Meeting with Initiator Candidates, Malibu California, January 10 1977
Because I'll tell you one thing from my practical experience. Every person that I have seen who was a full initiator, and then got confused, just got completely disastrous. From that point on, they were just leading a disastrous life. Because mind then begins to actually manifest. It's like, you have such a big battle. And before the battle maybe you had so much; maybe you had so much Knowledge experience, and whatever -- maybe you could just contend with that. But when you go to fight the mind and end up inside of you. No morale, no consciousness left within inside of you to proceed in the path, where Knowledge possibly could take shape. It's just left like mind multiplied by mind, bracket, multiplied by mind, times infinite. Just total mind. And the person is like a puppet, and then it just becomes really hard.
The Initiator Service, Quotes From Guru Maharaj Ji's Satsang
Munich, Germany on April 10, 1977
And it's just like, okay, mind and trips and so on and so forth. You can look at it any way you want; but to me, satsang, service, and meditation are food, you know? To keep me alive, when Guru Maharaj Ji is my life. So, if I leave Guru Maharaj Ji, and I keep on eating, then it's like a corpse trying to eat food: what would be the point? But if my life, if I could stick to my life, then automatically those things will be provided. Because what I'm dealing with here, what I am trying to realize in my life, what I am trying to become one in my life with, is a far more superior person, and is far more superiority there; that omnipotent, omnipresent; and omniscient - so what is a piece of apple, you know? What is a piece of banana? What is this and what is that? And everything can manifest for me; it has, you know? And this is why I'm here. This is why my realization is where it is at, is because I've surrendered myself.
The Golden Age Number 39
Kansas City, January 22, 1978
What's worse? Knowing the purpose of life and not fulfilling it is the worst thing, worst thing anybody can ever do. And yet, it's so beautiful that by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace, he gives us that strength. By his Grace, he gives us that strength to carry on.
The Divine Times January/February 1978
Memorial Day satsang, Malibu, California, May 28, 1978
But it's quite obvious that only by Knowledge -and then, not even that - only by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace, can we really understand who we really are, can we really have our true identity, can we really experience ourself, can we go beyond the barriers of right and wrong, can we go beyond the barrier of all time, and cross all infinity and merge with what's finite. And that's only possible by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace. It's just like our love for our Guru Maharaj Ji can never, can never, cease to exist. If there is a definition … Okay, this is a little harsh way to put it. But I'll put it: If there is a definition to sin - if there is one - then it definitely applies to the place of ever leaving that Love, of ever forgetting that Love, of Guru Maharaj Ji.
Until then, again, keep doing satsang, service and meditation. And just flow with that experience. Because without that experience, we're lifeless. With that experience, we become who we are. Not Joe Blow. Not Smith, not Kathy, not John, not this, not that. But we become who we really are. And if we forget who we really are, if we let go of Guru Maharaj Ji and really forget who we really are in the true sense of the word, then that's almost like committing suicide, that's almost like dying.
The Golden Age August 1978 Number 47
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 27th August, 1978
There is the experience that you have experienced in Knowledge. There is that experience you've experienced in service, in meditation, in darshan. And mind says. "But I promise you more than that." Mind has always promised us. but never given us anything. Guru Maharaj Ji has not only promised us. but given us more than what he has promised. Always. Always. And as that battle begins, the things get even more tense. And if that faith is not there, if that faith is not completely in Guru Maharaj Ji, you're going to fall in so many fragments that you wouldn't be able to count them yourself. You will run right out of count. Right out of it. You will go beyond zillions, billions, everything.
The Divine Times January/February 1978
Hans Jayanti, Kissimmee, Florida, on the afternoon of Thursday 8th of November, 1979
You know what manmut means? Manmut is what has been described as a devotee who is not a devotee, who has been sent beyond everything. A manmut is the worst. That's it. If there's the pits, then that's the pits. That's the end. That's the back room of hell. That's the hell of hell. And what manmut means is: the follower of mind. But before being a manmut, you have to be a devotee. First you have to be a devotee, follow Guru Maharaj Ji, and only then you can become a manmut. Because you leave Guru Maharaj Ji and start following your mind. And then you end up in the pits. That's it.
The Golden Age, May 1980, Number 56
Hans Jayanti Festival, November 10, 1979
Have that faith in Guru Maharaj Ji so that you can trust Guru Maharaj Ji. Because the tendency of the mind - if you can just imagine the mind being this great wind - you're standing out in the middle of this incredible, huge, gigantic field and this monstrous wind starts blowing. And you feel it. You feel that this wind is going to take you away, this wind is going to shatter you. What can you do? What do you need at that moment? Oh, of course it would be wonderful if the wind just stopped blowing. It'd be wonderful if the mind just stopped. But what you need at that moment is something to hang on to. And faith in Guru Maharaj Ji, trust in Guru Maharaj Ji, is the very pole to which you can cling and be saved. Having trust in Guru Maharaj Ji, having faith in Guru Maharaj Ji, to me, proved every time to be this wrench that could pull me out. Faith in Guru Maharaj Ji, to me, is - if I keep walking into the sand pile, the faith is the wench, this link between me and Guru Maharaj Ji, which can pull me out. Because if I lose faith in Guru Maharaj Ji, then truly I have lost faith in myself. And if I lose faith in myself, how can I even go on? How can I even continue?
Divine Times, Volume 9 Number 1 January/February 1980
Holi Festival, Rome, Italy / June 25, 1980
I was standing there on the steps, listening to the song (Leaving Your Lotus Feet, Where Would I Go?). It's starting to become one of my favorites. I know it really has to be true for me. My experience of Guru Maharaj Ji, my experience of Knowledge, has to be real for me. If it isn't real for me, then who am I kidding? What am I trying to do? What am I trying to accomplish?
Élan Vital, Fall 1980, Volume IV, Issue 3
Rome, Italy 1st November, 1981
I have faith in my Guru Maharaj Ji because I have seen that that faith, that faith is the rope. If I let go of it I don't even know where the bottom is. It's gonna be an endless, endless, endless, endless, endless, endless, endless, endless fall.
Rome 1/11/81 video
Festival Of Knowledge, Brussels 10th December 1989
What would happen, people are gonna think this is sacrilegious, ha, what would happen if you decided you don't want to? Go ahead, you’ll laugh, you'll cry, quote unquote you'll live a very normal life. You really will, you really will … there is greater agony, greater agony in sitting on top of the fence going should I, shouldn't I, should I, shouldn't I, much greater agony … People say "Well, you know, I've had Knowledge for eight years and nothing has happened." My suggestion is go, go, go in the bathroom, pull down your pants and see if you've got marks sitting on a fence and I guarantee you'll find 'em right across
Festival Of Knowledge Audio Tape transcript
Shri Hans Jayanti celebrations, November 9, 1990
The golden opportunity that has been given to you has to be understood fully well. Just see, when we remember the old happenings today, so many things come to our mind. Those old memories are being revived before you in reality. They are living experiences now. There are people who turned manmats (devotee of mind) and went away, though I haven't seen myself, but people say that they have now become very thin and feeble, as if they have come directly out of their graves. And that is natural.
Life Force, Volume 7 Issue 2, April - June, 1991