THE ETERNAL FLAME
Satsang and Answers of Shri Guru Maharaj Ji
3rd August 1972, Denver, Colorado
Everything in this world functions because of some power, and there are different types of power. They work in the same way, but some are nine volts, some are 12 volts, some are 24 volts. But there is one power that vibrates everywhere and this is the main thing in our life which we are searching for. But there are so many sects. Many Western people believe in Jesus, one thing, but besides believing in Jesus they then become Catholic and so many other things. The Eastern people believe in Ram, but still there are different ways of believing in Him. Or they believe in Krishna and they also believe in many different ways. They all talk about one God, but if one has understood who God is then everyone will believe in that. one thing, that one conception, that one light, the one Divine Light. This one thing is very common, but it is very interesting.
Take one scripture, the Bible. Now, John talks about this Word, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Then take the Koran, and they talk about Pak Nam, the Holy Name. Then take the Gita, and Krishna talks about this Word. Then take the Ramayana and this also talks about the Word. Originally the Ramayana was written in Sanskrit even before Ram came, like the Old Testament was written before Jesus came, yet this Old Testament also talked about the Word. They were written in different languages. Some were written in Sanskrit, some were written in Hindi, some were written in Urdu, some were written in English, and some were
written in many other languages. But they all talk about the Word.
Now one thing that interests me particularly is this Word and what is this Word? Now, I have realized it, but other people are not understanding what this Word which is common to all actually is. Though we believe in Jesus or Ram or Krishna or Mohammed, whoever we believe in, we have to believe in one God. So who is this God that we have to ultimately believe in; He is our ultimatum; He is our goal; He is our all. Who is this God? This God is energy, it's the real and the only source of energy that is making everything vibrate in the world, from a little ant to a big elephant. Even the air on which we have made ourselves. See, we human beings think ourselves big and proud because we have invented a 747, but if there are air pockets it might crash. You can put millions and millions and billions of dollars into one jet and if there is no air, it cannot fly. You have got the seventh fleet, but if the sea water soaks up it can't go anywhere. We have got cannons but if the iron melts down they cannot fire. So actually, ultimately, everything is based on nature. Though we think we have produced so many artificial things, actually they are all based on nature.
We have got generators, but if the air finishes or if the diesel finishes, there is going to be no generator which can produce electricity for us. In India, electricity is produced by water running through big, big things and making the whole thing rotate. Now if the water soaks up, how will this machine run? We think ourselves so proud to have invented this thing, but actually what we have invented is nothing, because just like a mad person does, we took some things from different places and put them together. There is one mad boy in our ashram in Delhi and he goes all round the ashram. From some place he collects his pens and from another place he collects his papers and from other places he collects so many things, and man has done the same, and he is crazy because it's not going to give him anything. Those pens don't write. In the same way man is also so crazy that he has invented the bomb and doesn't know that he also will be a victim of his bomb. See? Suppose the Americans have produced so many bombs, they think they will destroy Russia. Russia thinks they will destroy America. China thinks they will destroy India. India thinks they will destroy China. But all of them are being destroyed. These are the reasons why we know this is how the world is going to end. We simply can't help it and that's the way a mad man acts. He knows it is wrong for him but he can't help it. If he is going to smash his hand or bite his hand, he knows it is going to pain him. He knows this is a painful thing and he shouldn't do it, but he just can't help it, he is out of control, he is out of his mind. In the same way, man knows all these things are going to destroy him, they are not going to do anything good, they are going to destroy. So many beautiful islands were simply destroyed because there were so many bomb tests. So much pollution is happening also. We feel very happy to produce things, but what the results of those things are, we simply don't understand. I am not a political leader to be talking about all these things, but there are things that are going to protect man. If a man is walking somewhere and he has got no clothes and it is snowing, he is going to be dead. Actually, what he is internally is a flame, an internal flame. But with no clothes the eternal flame can't work, because that internal flame, that soul of ours, works inside the body and makes the body function. No soul, no body. No body, the soul is still there but how is it going to function? If we want to do some good work, we need to protect our body. That's why a general or a major or a colonel is always protected from going in the front during the war. Otherwise he could just go in first and be shot. But he always stays behind, protects himself and gives orders. Why should he protect himself? So that he can stay longer, be more experienced and give better directions.
So now a time has come when everything is coming before us. Strange things we never knew of, strange diseases, strange things going on, and man has come to this stage now, finally, where he has started experiencing this Knowledge. He is doing this because he is realizing something. Scientists, when they took the atom, the smallest particle, and broke it, light and energy came out. What is this energy? So now scientists have started asking what is this energy, what actually is this thing that is making everything vibrate. Doctors think themselves so good, but heart attacks are out of their control. They are working day and night to protect people from them, and day and night thousands and thousands of people are being killed by them. So what is it? You see, everyone has got a different role to play in the world. Saints have got a role, scientists have got a different role. Doctors have got a role, engineers have got a different role. Presidents have got a role, Prime Ministers have got a different role. A saint has got to play his role around the world. A president is not international, but a saint is. Just like in England there was Shakespeare, there was one Indian writer who was like Shakespeare and his name was Kalidas. He was completely uneducated and he wrote so many beautiful things. He said, "A king can only be praised in his own country, but a saint can be praised everywhere he goes." The powers of a prime minister or a president or a king are limited, but the saint has got a power that is unlimited,
and that is the power of the Knowledge. If you go to India and walk into my school, in each classroom there is a picture of Jesus Christ. Why not a picture of Ram? It is because Jesus is internationally respected. I have seen many places here in the West that have pictures of Ram. They are not Hindus, but they have pictures of Him, because He was a saint and they respect His Knowledge, if not His body. But what is He? He is not body, He is energy, He is soul, He is that perfect energy that He gives you.
So now what we have to understand is that there are two levels. One is a recognized level, one is an unrecognized level. One level is that which knows this Knowledge. He who is on this level understands everything, everything is clear for him. The other level is the level of ignorance. If there are two cars and one has got headlights on it and one hasn't got headlights, as long as there is daylight, there will be nothing wrong with either of the cars, but as soon as it becomes dark only one car will be able to work. Which car? Only that car which has got headlights on it is going to do any work at night. This can go around at night and that's that. As long as a person is rich and young and has something of his own to do, he is happy, he is okay. But one day darkness is going to come and only those people who have got this light will be able to make their way through this world. Other people will just have to park and wait for twelve hours. Do you see?
When I was coming from Bombay to Delhi there was a Mercedes that was presented by premies and I was bringing it from Bombay to Delhi … there was this whole convoy of cars because many Indian cars are produced in Bombay. The whole convoy of cars was coming along and none of them had headlights because they had not been fitted, they were in the boot. So they all had to wait the whole night on the roadside. But we just drove on because we had headlights, and they just had to park their cars. They could go when it was daylight. So, we were self-sufficient and could go at night-time as well as day-time. Now, if a man is like that, if a man has got headlights, if he has got this Knowledge, if he has got this light, he can go anywhere in darkness and in light. He can go everywhere. If your car is an ordinary car you can take it some place and another place you can't take it. You can't take it on rocks, for instance, but a jeep with a four wheel drive – you can take it anywhere. If ordinary cars get stuck in mud and all four tyres start sinking, then you have got no chance. But some cars have got this hook which the driver can take and hook onto a tree or something and then start the motor and the car comes out of the mud. So this is the precise thing, we should be like a car which is so self-sufficient that you just press a button, it lifts up and goes anywhere, under water, anywhere. And if you realize this Knowledge you can be self-sufficient. We can bear any hardship. When a hardship comes to another man, it just blows him to pieces. And he can't face that. Why is this Knowledge required by the whole world? Because everyone is blowing out on these problems. A man starts a business and he should be happy because he has started a business. But he is not, because he doesn't know whether this business is going to work out in the next week or not. Many things are going on. Even if you drive a new car you can have problems. When I was going from New York to England, I sat in a Jumbo which had just been taken out from the hangar. It was brand new, it just came from where it was manufactured. It came to New York and this was the first flight it had to do, from New York to England. And I was sitting in it and it went on the runway, then stopped and turned round and came back and parked. I asked, "What's the matter?" They said the radio doesn't work. New plane, they spend billions and billions of dollars, and the radio doesn't work! So, no matter how much wealth you have, until you are in the perfect vibration you are not going to be happy anyway.
If you want to fly, say up to one thousand feet, and the mountains there are seven thousand feet, you cannot fly securely over them, can you? When you crash into one of them you can't fly any more. But our Lord, our God, is one vibration. It is flowing infinitely. It is endless, it is perfect. Our vibrations are imperfect and they are flowing at a very low frequency. Unless someone gives us extra power to lead us up to the higher frequency where we can run smoothly, we cannot be at the infinite stage. But once we are at the infinite stage that's the principle that Jesus talks about; "You shall not perish, you shall not die, you shall not finish, you will go into the infinite frequency, you will be one with God." That's the way you get to be one with God. There is this frequency and there is no duality. Because as long as there is duality in this world there can be no peace. Duality just cannot bring about peace. Simple thing! In India, there was this problem, the English and Hindi problem. And part of this is because some of the students don't want to study so they just boom about thinking all these things. So this part of the college said, "O.K., we want a vacation, so what should we do? We should go on strike. And what is the reason we should go on strike for?" They couldn't find a fault in the school so what they did is, they told the other part of the school, "We will strike against you. You say you want English, we will say we want Hindi. We will both fight, we won't do anything, we will just say you want English and we want Hindi. And that's what we'll
do." And in Dehra Dun, where my residence is, this boy said, "O.K., English, Hindi, English, Hindi", and a fight started. And you know what they started doing? They used to sit on the roadside and hold a bucket of pebbles, hard rocks, and any car with an English number plate, they just threw them at it. They just broke all the mirrors. And one day there was a boy from one group and a boy from the other group and they were both friends. One was sitting in the corner drinking his tea and the other was writing something. And on this one's pen was a name written in English and the other boy said, "Rub it out," and he didn't so he took his knife and stabbed him right there.
But the brigadier was there, he is a very good man, and what he did, in six hours he spread out all his military all over Dehra Dun and he told them that if they see anyone with pebbles, they must just shoot them down. Nothing else, just shoot them down. Immediately there were no students on the roadside! Nothing happened. But still there is duality. Russia is one nation and America is another nation, and then there are other nations. If all the nations are separated, then there must be something separating them. One must be here, one must be here and one must be here. But they are all in one world, they are all on one globe. There are no different globes. You don't take a different globe for Africa, a different globe for America. You take one globe for the whole world because the world is one. But because we don't realize it there is the idea of duality in us. That's why there is so much unpeace going on. My point is this. You are not the president of nations, neither are you the generals of nations. I'm just talking to you, explaining the situation. If you give water to the root it will automatically go to the leaves. If I tell something to the people, it will automatically go to the presidents.
So now, understand what is this perfect Knowledge, and those people who have understood it, meditate on it. You must understand it more, because when you get food you don't just say, "O.K, I've got it, why should I eat it?" Getting it is not your point, eating it is your point. You get it then you eat it. If you get it and don't eat it, no difference. You got this Knowledge, meditate on it. And see how it helps you, how it elevates you, how it powers you to go up, to spread upwards. There is going to be a big programme on the 6th, so come there, you will be able to hear some more. And after this Bal Bhagwan Ji is going to Europe, I am going to Japan and there will be mahatmas who will give you satsang. So try to understand them. Bal Bhagwan ji is not going to return; He is going on to India to arrange everything for the November programme. So now those people who have realized this Knowledge, meditate, and those who haven't, try to realize it. It's an international thing. It's something internal. If rain comes, or maybe I jump into a pool, I get wet but not the Knowledge. If I go into the sun, I feel hot but not the Knowledge. If I come through customs I am checked but not the Knowledge. Hindus have taken the Knowledge, Christians have taken it, anyone can take it. It's like water and everyone can drink water; there is no problem drinking water. In the same way this Knowledge. Premies who meditate on it will feel how beautiful it is. Now, I don't have to do many things, so if you have got any sensible questions, ask.
My Lord, you have given me so much grace but I still feel wretched. Can I have more?
Hum! Some can be given, but some you will have to develop for yourself. When you put four by four into your car, power comes, but more power is given by the accelerator. Press it and more power comes. You have been given one power; meditate and you will be uplifted. Yes?
Guru Maharaj Ji, people I talk to who are not premies think that you're just trying to get your disciples' money and they think all you care about is big cars. I try so hard to explain to them but I don't know the best way.
You must tell them that Maharaj Ji's Knowledge does not lie in His big cars and does not lie in His television. It lies within Him and it lies within you. Whatever Maharaj Ji does, what has that to do with you? You want to receive Knowledge. If some man serves you coffee and he walks with his head down and his feet up you don't say, "I am not going to drink that coffee because he's walking in that way," you drink the coffee. You don't drink the man, you drink the coffee. If they are going to get me, then they must have a place where they are going to keep the bulky car. I haven't got a bulky car actually, this is a rented car. And if they are going to get my Knowledge, that's within them. Just try to explain to them.
Is yours the only way?
I don't say that.
See, you must realize that there is only one way, there is only one way to God. God is one, He has got one address, not two or three or four or
five addresses. When you say Allah in Urdu, Bhagwan in Hindi, God in English, you are indicating one power not three powers. So to realize God, there is only one way. You can look at these bulbs from all different sides because they are stationary things. But God is not stationary, He is everywhere. Understand? So the main thing is, there is only one way to see God because God is one and you see Him through the Third Eye and the Third Eye is one. You see? You know that Jesus said when the eye will be one … something like that, when the eye will be single. Why should it be single, why not two? Because God is one and to look at Him is one thing. One form. With these two eyes I can look at much more area and my concentration does not go to one thing, it goes to different things. But when my eye will be single I can only be concentrating on one God, not two or three Gods and not reflections of God but one who is the main one, who is the energy, understand?
So realize it. It's not a question of, "Oh, if I take this Knowledge, what will happen?' No, I am very practical. I don't go into many scriptures, but I take a dish, I put three types of fruit in it, two are artificial and one is real, and I give it to you and say, "O.K., tell me which is the real fruit." Now it's not such a thing where you bring your astrological charts and start calculating which degree one fruit is kept in and which degree another fruit is kept in so you can tell which is real and which is artificial. What is the practical thing? You eat it. You understand? When kings in the ancient days used to be suspicious about being poisoned, they did not take a big old junky thing and try to experiment with the poison. No, what they used to do is, they used to get a dog and give him some food to eat, so if there was poison in it he would die, and if not he wouldn't die. This Knowledge is here. It's within you. Other gurus are not disappearing from the world. They are there, so you take this Knowledge and take their knowledge and see what is the real Knowledge. Then you will be able to know for sure.
Guru Maharaj Ji, I had a lot of doubts and a lot of people I know still have the same doubts about the strictness of the ashram. I would like to know what to say to them about why this has to be.
They feel you're on a control trip.
Now you see, God is the controller, it is His control trip. Why do you only see with your eyes, why not with your mouth or with your nose? Why only with eyes? You talk about it being a control trip, then why do you only see with your eyes and not with your mouth? Why? Because that's the way things are, and that's the way things are going to be, understand? A man who sees through his mouth, you are not going to call him a man, you are going to call him a monster! A man must see through his eyes, that's the way it must be. Ashram has to be ashram. Ashram is not a motel. An ashram is an ashram and an ashram has got something of soul in it. You don't go into a church and just start sleeping there and drinking your coffee there. You don't do that, do you? A church is a church, a temple is a temple, you are strict about doing certain things there. Understand? You go to church, you pray, you meditate, you read something, you understand something, and you become more spiritual, right? Why should there be so much strictness? We are the children of God and this is the house of God, that's why there should be so much strictness. That's the way it has to be, that's why.
What is confusing, though, is that some of the ashram people say the whole world should be like the ashram.
If the whole world can be like that, it will be fantastic! There is so much desperation around the world. I read advertisements encouraging people to smoke. And there is an ashram regulation saying, "Do not smoke", so if that happens all the way round the world, it will be fantastic. No drugs, nothing like that. Everyone neat and clean and active. It will be fantastic!
What about celibacy?
Well, this is a question about something that has gone beyond the bounds where it should be. It should be more controlled. Anything else? Yes?
Can this Knowledge be given to mentally retarded people?
The question is only of understanding. God has created all things and all things must be utilized. God has created different types of nature and all the natures must be utilized. God has crated intellect and it must be utilized for the good. God has created anger and it must be utilized for the good, because if someone comes to you and tries to kill you, you've got to tell him not to do it and you must be angry with him. If someone does something bad, if someone kicks a holy book and you don't get angry with him, the next time he is going to kick it again, right? A little bit of anger, a little bit of everything, makes a beautiful combination. A little bit of intellect and a little bit of understanding that what we require is this Knowledge. And everyone who is a man and who understands that he requires the Knowledge, can by all means receive it. Yes?
How does God create?
You must go into his factory, you must go to God and ask Him, "How do you create?" See, who is God? God is not a man. If God is not a man He is not an individual. This man here is an individual, right? But he cannot create himself into different forms, right? So God is not like him, God is almighty. That's why I say God is beyond intellect. Understand this. If God is God, how does He create all this? God has got no hands, so how does He do it? God is omnipotent, right? Man feels himself to be very intelligent but if one thing comes that he doesn't understand he just blows out on it! If a flying saucer comes it just blows him out because he doesn't know what it is. This is the thing that blows man out. He understands that God has got no hands, that God is energy and that God is omnipotent. But how can He be omnipotent if He has got no hands, how can He create so many things? If you go to a wax museum where they produce these wax statues, you'll see they are creating things just like human beings! So, if God has got no hands how does He create all this? He has got a machine, and this is how He creates! But to understand all this is beyond intellect, you must be right in that frequency, understand? If a man is standing outside, he doesn't know what is on top of the roof, does he? Why not? Because his eyes are not at that level. When his eyes are at that level he'll be able to see, right? In the same way, a man is not at that level where he can see what God is doing, but when he will be at that level, then he will be able to know if you can be God. Yes?
What is the cause of individuality or personality? You are a realized person, you have realized this Knowledge, your Brother also has realized this Knowledge, and your Mother and your other Brothers have also realized. You are all souls from the same energy, so you are the same thing, yet we can all recognize you as being different and having different roles.
You know this pretty song that premies have made, "We are one in the spirit", hmm? That gives the answer to the question. Different bodies, one in the spirit. If ten cars are manufactured, right, all ten might have different things in them. Maybe one car is custom made and has air-conditioning. Maybe they are Plymouth Chryslers. One car has got air-conditioning and one car has got no air-conditioning, but they have all got V-8 engines, right? An engineer knows that there is no difference between these cars, but another man doesn't know. Understand? There are two ways of looking at a thing: looking into a thing and looking at the outside of a thing. If you look into a thing you will see that it is the same. Look outside, and he is Mahatma Gurucharnanand, he is Bihari Singh, he is Mahatma Ashokanand and so on. But look into him, understand who Mahatma Gurucharnanand is. His soul does not own a name. One thing is important and that is the soul. One who looks into the soul understands.
Is there a purpose, then, for different talents? Like some cars have different equipment; some are little compacts and some are big luxury cars.
No, I'm talking about one series of cars, say the Mercedes 220. Now, they have all got one four-cylinder engine, right? A Mercedes 220 with power steering and a Mercedes 220 without power steering both have the same engine. A Mercedes 220 with air-conditioning and a Mercedes 220 without air-conditioning both have the same engine. It will not make any difference. An engineer knows there is no real difference between 220's, but someone who is not an engineer will say, "Oh yes, there is a difference. This car has got air-conditioning and that the other car hasn't!" Do you understand? But if you are at the high frequency where everything is on the infinite level from which everything has been moulded into a different shape, then duality does not exist. How did duality actually start? I must explain it to you, it is very interesting. Man produced a language, he made a language, right? And then he understood, "I am man, he is man, everybody is man." He understood "I", "me", "you". Then he started producing things and then he became selective. This belongs to me, this belongs to you. This was the beginning of ego, ego is the beginning of duality, duality is the beginning of individuality and this is what leads to fighting. This became more strong, I, you, me, he, and his, all that, and now it has moulded into such a shape that even if you will get one single cent out of it you will say that this is mine! One single cent – this is mine! So this is the actual beginning of duality, of individual things. We are all so many different shapes but we have got one spirit, we all function in one way. He has got a moustache, Mahatma Ji hasn't got a moustache. He breathes, Mahatma Ji breathes. Right? They both take breath. What is the shape of his breath and what is the shape of his breath? Nothing different, right? In the same way, we all have different shapes but are one thing. One thing vibrates and that is why we are all human. And if you realize it more, then you can understand it more.
Since meditation is so very important, my Lord, could you please speak about it?
Well, meditation is something really practical, and speaking is speaking. This is an internal thing. When you practise something daily … have you
seen a baby when the parents start teaching the baby how to walk, the first day he walks, the baby gets hurt, he doesn't know how to do it right. The next day maybe he doesn't get so hurt, he is learning a little bit. On the third day you still have to catch his hand though he knows a bit more, then on the fourth day he knows a bit more, and on the fifth day a bit more. After some time he starts running, he runs like anything and eventually he reaches the stage where he is perfect, right? In the same way, maybe on the first day you don't get anything, the next day maybe just a little bit, next day a little bit more, the fourth day a bit more and so on and so on, and then you reach the final stage. And then the final stage comes where you get taken up into that one perfect altitude. See, when an aeroplane is cruising, you don't know whether it is cruising or not, it just reaches its own altitude and stays at that altitude. That's the meditation, that is gaining something. You meditate and the more you meditate the higher you get and then you join that frequency where you become infinite. Understand this. This is the whole thing about meditation. Meditation is actually concentrating on something. Real concentration is meditation, so what to concentrate upon? There is only one thing that we can concentrate on, only one thing which is the most interesting thing.
I remember one boy who came to me, in America I think it was. Yes, in America. And he had taken so much acid, so much LSD. And so many other things, that he asked me "Have you taken LSD?" and I said, "No" and then he said, "How can you know that LSD's experience is not so big as the Knowledge experience?" I said, "If I walk into a car company and I say, 'Give me a Mercedes 600', and another man comes along who has got a 280 and asks me, 'How do you know a 280 is smaller than a 600?' and I say, 'Yours is 280 and mine is 600, so naturally 600 is bigger.' Natural sense, common sense. That's all it is. Right?" It's just common sense. It just comes to me, this is how I explain that Knowledge you cannot limit. My Knowledge is so big it hasn't even got a name. So big is it. It is infinitely bigger than LSD. LSD is just a small tablet, I have such a big Knowledge, infinite Knowledge. And so then he understood how this Knowledge is much bigger than LSD. If you realise it you will be able to understand it perfectly. Once you have reached the stage of perfection, this is a very beautiful stage. It is really just so wonderful if you join that highest frequency, so beautiful because then you have got one vibration. Right now ten thousand different things are working on you at one time, and you really get messed up, but then only one thing works on you and it really purifies you, it really gives you the blessed experience. It is such a far out thing. Is there any other question?
After we receive Knowledge we must meditate, and have devotion and do service.
Now when you have a lot of spare time as I do, is it wrong to read the Bible and the Gita, or any of these beautiful things?
No it's not. You see, when you drive a car, if you drink a cup of tea, is it wrong to drink a cup of tea? Or let's say orange, many people drink that, or say Fanta. Let's say you take a Fanta bottle inside your car, is it wrong? It won't affect your car, will it?
It might affect your driving.
No, you see only a man who is experienced will do it. Inexperienced people are even afraid to take their hand off the steering wheel. So in the same way, when we receive this Knowledge, that starts the engine working, right? Whatever you eat, it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect you. It doesn't affect the Knowledge at all, you understand? The engine just runs and runs and runs. The steering wheel might affect your direction, but not the engine, it doesn't matter how much Fanta you drink, it won't go into the engine.
How should we give satsang, Guru Maharaj Ji? Should we give different kinds of satsang to different people.
Yes, there is a style in giving satsang and some people are not familiar with it. If I give satsang to premies, right, and then I go to my school and I give satsang to my teachers, I don't say "Dear premies, this and that," do I? I say, "Dear teachers," right? Of course. Now there is one theme that I tell them, and there is a different theme that I tell premies. What I do with them is I ask them questions, I don't give them answers, I ask them questions. What is the highest point in your life, eh? Questions like this. But I don't ask premies, "What is the highest point in your life?" They will say, "Yes, I know that." When I am with my teachers I ask them, and when they can't answer, or they give the wrong answer, then I tell them. If he says such and such a thing, then I tell him, "No, this is it." So it is a different style. When I meet my friend, I'll tell him in a different way; and if I meet my relatives, I'll tell them in a different way; and when I meet different people, I'll tell them in a different way. Many times it happens that I'm sitting in a plane and a man walks up to me and says, "May I ask you a question?" I say, "Go ahead," and I don't know
who this man is, because it's the first time I'm seeing him, right? And we both start talking. I don't talk to him too much, mostly he talks to me and I am understanding what type of man he is, because some types of people are very strange. And you want to know what kind of person they are, and they'll want to talk, so you let them talk. And what do I do? I sit quietly and let them talk and talk and talk. And then they stop, and then I'll tell them something. Everybody is ready for the introduction, but in a different style. Yes?
Could you explain the nature of grace?
Common sense is uncommon. What do you think grace is?
I'm not sure, that's why I ask you.
But sure, you know what grace is. Haven't you gone through high school? Surely you have read this word in your dictionary or somewhere, so you've known what the meaning is.
Everything you talk about is very logical, but grace is something illogical.
Everything I talk about is logical, and grace is logical. So what is grace? Have you heard about power and extra power? Have you heard about tyres, and radial tyres? Have you heard about steering, and power steering? What's the difference between steering and power steering, mm? Well, let's leave that and come to a practical example. If my car gets stuck in sand, and all four wheels go down, first of all, if I am in the fourth gear, I put it into third, right? And then into second, and then into first. That's my effort, it doesn't work. Then I put it into reverse. That's my effort too, right, and it doesn't work. All my efforts don't work. Then I take this hook, I hook the car onto a tree and try to roll it out. But it doesn't work, and that's my effort again, and it doesn't work. Then I tell someone to bring a crane, that's not my effort, I just tell him to bring the crane. He brings the crane, picks up the car, pulls it out, and that's his effort. And that's called grace. So if we try to do meditation, it doesn't work out, try to do some more, it doesn't work out, try to do some more, it doesn't work out, ask the mahatmas, it doesn't work out, get a Knowledge review, it doesn't work out. Then comes the grace, pushes it away, throws it out, out of the sand. Yes?
I have been told that if you are meditating on the Word then you do no wrong actions, but it seems to me that sometimes people might be meditating on the Word, and they can still do wrong actions.
No, no. See, this can't be. If there are two people, both driving cars. One gets in an accident, and one doesn't. They are both drivers, why should one have an accident and not the other? They are both drivers. Why? Because one is not trained, and one is perfectly trained. That man who is perfectly trained, who is just perfect in meditation, does not do a wrong action. But there is a limit, to err is human. This is the same for all of them, otherwise they all become gods. This is the difference between gods and human beings. Human man has to perform some errors, but a man who is in this Knowledge does not perform so many errors, or does not perform such an error that will become a really huge thing, you understand? But the man who does not have this Knowledge, might perform a really huge error. That's the point. That's the whole thing. Who told you that a man who has this Knowledge does not perform a wrong action?
I don't remember, just somebody said that if you are meditating on the Word, then you can't perform a wrong action, that everything you do will be perfect.
Yes, it can be perfect, but only if you go on to that highest frequency. Then it's perfect. Yes?
For whom do you recommend ashram life?
For whom? Everybody, of course. For human beings, not chimpanzees. But first they must have no obligations, and they must want to dedicate their whole life.
Guru Maharaj Ji, will everybody realise this Knowledge, whether they live in ashrams or not?
Sure, I don't live in an ashram, do I? I was born in an ashram, and now I live in an ashram, but most of the time when I was studying, when I was doing my education, I wasn't in ashram, I was just in a residence. And I know this Knowledge, I have realised this Knowledge. I give it to people. Yes?
My Lord, sometimes I get confused about service, and how to do service.
Now listen, sometimes I also get confused about why Americans should be so confused. Only Americans. I can't understand this. Maybe they are too high powered, maybe their motor rotates at a higher speed. Now what do you get confused about?
I get confused about which service I should be doing as a devotee.
Common sense is uncommon. Now just what do you think is appropriate for you to do? Now if you want to drive a plane, and you don't know how to drive a plane, then that won't be useful service for you. You must know what to do. If you know how to work as a housemother in an ashram, then work as a housemother. If you don't want to stay in an ashram, then do satsang. Right? Common sense is uncommon. Yes?
Guru Maharaj Ji can you tell us something about the nature of nectar, why it's there, and why it comes?
Hmm, why? Can you answer me what's 'why'?
Well, why does it come sooner in some people than in others?
The nectar is there and the nectar flows, right? And why does it flow? Stop it. If it's wrong, stop it flowing. If it's O.K. then don't ask the question 'why?' If your farm needs water, and water comes into your farm, you don't say, "Why is water coming into my farm?" You don't say 'why?' do you? Now if your whole land doesn't need water, and water comes in, then you say 'why?' You say, "Why is water coming?" Then you can stop the water. If you don't like the nectar, stop it. If you like it, go ahead, there is no question of 'why?' What do you mean 'why?' 'Why?' is a question that obligates something. Why were you driving over speed? 'Why?' It means you shouldn't do that, and you were doing it. Understand? Why are you wearing glasses? You shouldn't be wearing glasses, and you are wearing glasses. See, my eyes are weak, that's why I am wearing glasses. Why are the wheels rotating? Because they should rotate. Why must you do something? Why? Now if the world was being created, and God was just recently creating you and me, and you were asking, "God, why are you putting nectar into man?" There is no need for that question, it has already been put. So there is no sense in asking the question 'why?'. You can put it, no doubt, everyone is free to have any question he wants in his brain, but 'why?' is not a sensible question. It doesn't make any sense. Because 'why?' is not going to do anything, it is not going to help anything. Why is it there? It is there, because you should have it. Understand, God is not crazy. God has got something about Him. He is giving it to you because He knows you need it. That's why. In South Africa I was driving, and the radio was on, and this man was commentating, and he said, "This world has got so many questions to it, and where did yesterday go?" Where did yesterday go? And we just laughed and laughed and laughed. Where did yesterday go? And he said, "It disappeared, where did it go?" Very intelligent question.
You see, some people gamble. They gamble because they want to, they have got this interest and they gamble. Some people play cards, some people do one thing and some people do something else. But there are some people who can't do anything, so what do they do? They ask 'why?' "Where did yesterday go?" They ask and ask and ask, but they'll never find out anything. Any more questions?
Guru Maharaj Ji, if the ultimate in devotion is to form complete detachment from worldly things, and to devote our lives to doing service for You, should we just avoid all attachments, and not make them, attachments like husbands and wives and children?
No you shouldn't. Have you any sense in you? Can't you think anything, don't you have a brain in you? What do all these things mean? What does complete detachment mean? Do you know what is a sannyasi? Do you know what is a sannyasi, it is one who has given away everything. There is a very good story about this king, and this king one day thought that this other king is going to invade my kingdom. He is going to come, and he's going to slaughter so many thousands and thousands of people. So much slaughter is going to take place unnecessarily, he thought. So he just decided to become a sannyasi, and he said, "O.K. I am going to leave everything and go into the jungle." So one day this king went into the jungle, see. But the queen knew what was happening, and she knew that the other king was going to come and invade the whole country. So what did she do? She just changed herself, and went into the jungle dressed as a king, and said, "O.K. what are you doing?" He was her husband, but the king never knew, "This is my wife", and she did not act as if, "This is my husband." She just acted like a king. So she said, "O.K. what are you doing?" He said, "O.K. I am a sannyasi, and I have left everything." "Have you?" she said. Now he had a little bucket type of thing, and she said, "To whom does this belong?" and he said, "To me." And she said, "Well if you are a sannyasi, if you have left everything, then why do you have this thing?" He said, "You are right," and he threw it away. Then she said, "To whom does this but belong?" He said, "To me." She said, "If you are a sannyasi, and you have left everything, then why
have you a hut?" And he said, "Yes", and he just burned it down. "Ultimately", she said to him, "to whom does this body belong?" and he said, "To me." And she said, "If you are a sannyasi, if you have left everything, then why do you have this body?" And he became confused. Then she explained, "No, what is a real sannyasi, what is real detachment is detachment from your mind, is detachment from your desires. You need certain things. You have to get them even if you go into the Himalayas, or into the Alps to meditate, you will have to have certain things. When Buddha was fasting and meditating, and His body was so thin there was just nothing left, He looked like a few bones. Now Indra, the God of heaven, sent a girl down to play some music for Him, to disturb Him in His meditation, because Buddha was getting so high, He was shaking the whole thing up there. And this girl actually knew why Indra sent her, to disturb Buddha from His meditation, and she was a little afraid of Him. "If I disturb Him," she thought, "He might curse me." So what she did was to start playing a beautiful melody, a melody that said, "Don't tighten the strings of your sitar too much, because they might break. Don't loosen them so much, because they will not play. Tune them so that they might vibrate in perfect tune." And this shook Buddha's brain, and then He went out and that's when He met Sujata who gave Him Knowledge, and then He started preaching. Buddha, the only saint from the east who has done some prachar. Rama and Krishna came but They didn't do any prachar, They didn't spread this Word to anyone. Even though They were both kings. So this is the main thing you see, what detachment is required, is detachment from desires. Desires are the things that make us so unhappy. We have got infinite desires in us. One desire finishes, and another desire comes, that desire finishes and immediately another desire comes. So that thing which just produces more desires, should be the thing to be detached from. Understand?
But Guru Maharaj Ji, if we all come to this place of unity, won't there also be a unity of desires?
But you have unity of desires now, don't you? Don't you have one common desire to drink water when you feel thirsty. The whole world is disunited. If you feel thirsty, you drink water. If you feel hungry, you eat something. Why? You shouldn't do that because you are disunited. Americans and Vietnamese haven't got good relations, they are not united together. Now, the Vietnamese eat food when they are hungry, so Americans shouldn't eat food when they are hungry, or if Americans eat food when they are hungry, then the Vietnamese shouldn't. No, it is a common thing. Common desires have got to be there. See? When we all get united, then there will be no egos troubling us. No slaughtering people. Have you understood? You see, I have come now and this is going to happen. What is good for us is going to happen.
Guru Maharaj Ji, since there is one God for all, when we finally unite and become one with God, then is there a higher power who controls all of us, or is there just one that we are united to?
See there are no l's and you's and me's and he's in that place. There are rivers going into the ocean, right? There is a Ganges river, it flows into the ocean. When it goes into the ocean, where is the river? Has it disappeared? No, it has become part of the ocean. When we get away, when we become one with God, then we don't have any individuality, because originally we didn't have any individuality, right? And when we become one with God then again we don't have any individuality. That's the whole thing, you understand?
Guru Maharaj Ji, to do service in the ashram, I have been told that you must have short hair and wear a shirt and tie and look very clean. Now many long-haired people in America don't understand whether you want them to cut their hair, or whether the mahatmas want them to cut their hair, or whether other premies want them to cut their hair.
You think your hair is God?
Of course not.
Then what's the trouble in cutting it? It doesn't cause you any pain does it?
Well, the ego …
The ego must be destroyed completely. See, I am going to tell you one thing. Why do we need this rule? Sometimes we have to see business people to talk about things, right? Suppose we've got a staff together for 'And It's Divine' magazine, mm? And all the staff have long hair, suppose, right? and suppose they have to go to a place to do some talking about it, right? Now the first man who sees them will immediately say they are hippies, even if they are not. These relationships are very strange things, see? Now if a premie goes like a civilised man, I shouldn't use the word civilised, if he is like, you know, with his hair cut and so on, and he goes to see a business man, then the busi-
ness man will immediately respond to him, understand? Take Gary; Gary had long hair, so did Bruce; they used to wear kurta and pyjamas, but when I went to South Africa they all had ties on, and everybody was responding to them, because they thought, "Oh they have got the same dress, the same haircut, they are wearing ties, we have got our haircut, we wear ties, it means we are common, it means we are the same. If they are realising this Knowledge, then we can realise it too." Like that, they made them understand. Maybe in South Africa there are more ego trips than in this country. There is much gold there, you know, so they are very much into gold. So when the premies began to dress like that, there was a very quick response, and so when I got there, there were so many premies. That was the thing. There was a doctor who wrote an article saying that there are two thousand years of civilisation, one thousand going up and one thousand coming down, and now we're coming down. And maintaining civilisation is becoming a really unique thing, because when people were primitive they had long hair and they used to wear leather jackets, and today people again are having long hair and have started to wear leather jackets. Understand? All the primitive things are coming back now. A thousand years up, a thousand years down. Civilisation is equal. So this is what's happening now. Many premies have long hair when they receive Knowledge, and at first they say, "Oh no effect." They think this is just a trip or something like that. They think Divine Light Mission is just a trip, and nothing for them really. But then, later, you see them and they have cut their hair. Then there was this boy, Ron. I am going to give you a practical example. When I was coming to New York with Mata Ji, was it Mata Ji? Maybe I came with Bhole Ji and Raja Ji, I don't remember very well. I was just coming into New York, and there was this limousine that was supposed to be there to pick us up, and the limousine didn't turn up at the proper time, so Ron had to bring his car, and immediately he cut his hair, and came there with his car and drove us back. When he drove us back, his father was there, and his father had never seen him with his hair cut, and his father just embraced him. Why? Because of the way he looked. Ron used to talk a lot about this Knowledge, but his father never really understood, but that day when that change came, he understood more. He said, "Ron, there is a change in you." Yes?
Jesus Christ wore long hair and weird clothes.
That's because there were no hair cutting
machines at that time. Now there are. O.K. Now this is an interesting subject. Jesus had long hair and you want to become Jesus Christ, right? So grow your hair long, right? You have long hair and you are not Jesus, are you? You are not Jesus. Jesus was Jesus. Jesus was a high personality. Jesus was not judged by His hair, He was judged by His Knowledge, right?
Guru Maharaj Ji, as a middle-aged premie, I would like to compliment you on your stand, on the order you have put into the ashrams. After all, we have to deal with the people of the world, and if you are going to deal with only the young people, what about the older people who want to receive the Knowledge, who can't relate to the level of long hair and what not?
Yes, I understand that. Any more questions?
What happens to a person's karma when they receive the Knowledge?
It chokes up, it starts choking up. It starts finishing up, because when you realise the Knowledge you've got to go and be one with God, and if you had bad karma maybe you would have to go and become a donkey, right? According to your karma you would have to become a donkey. But according to this Knowledge, now you are going to go and be with God, because now you have this Knowledge, your karma of being a donkey, I want to abolish it, and instead you are going to go and be one with God, right?
Guru Maharaj Ji, should we make a point of giving satsang to our parents?
Well yes, but try to help them, try to be as they are. I mean try to help them with their business and so on, and then give them satsang, and they will understand you much better. This is the very practical thing, I am not joking really. This Ron I was talking about, this fellow Ron, and another fellow, Angelo, he went to his father and his father heard satsang and satsang and satsang. Because he was a business man, and Angelo also was a business man, so his father knew all about his obligations. Both were together. Oh, there are many ways you can work out these things. Sometimes you can't give satsang to your parents, sometimes you can't help it. Whatever you do they just won't relate to you, they won't understand you.
Guru Maharaj Ji, if this is the end of the thousand year cycle, what happens when it's over? Will everybody have this Knowledge?
Well, there are many prophesies you know, really strong ones. One prophesy says that in the months of November and December of this year, in the last months of this year, truth is going to rule over evil. Another one says that the time is very, very near. It has approached almost to the point where the Lord, the Lord who manifested Himself a long time ago, will now spark before the people. So one prophesy is like this and the other prophesy is like that, and there are other prophesies, and I can see them all coming true.
What does it feel like to be Lord of the Universe?
No feeling, no feeling at all. One with the highest frequency. Yes?
Guru Maharaj Ji, you spoke earlier on, very scientifically, about grace and what it was, but what's the method for receiving that extra power?
When everything just feels down, you just lean down and automatically it comes and lifts you up. Or maybe you just ask for it.
Lord, I would like Your grace.
If our father is a satisfied Catholic, or our friend is satisfied with transcendental meditation, should we try to give these people satsang?
No. There will come a time when they will ask you a question, and then when they ask that question, tell them, "If you are satisfied with your own religion, if you are satisfied with your own meditation, why do you ask a question? A man who is satisfied with his religion, who is satisfied with his meditation, doesn't ask a question." He should just sit and meditate and be really high. A man can't hide his error. I am satisfied, but if he is not satisfied, then somewhere his error is leaking out.
Guru Maharaj Ji, what is the relationship between science and truth?
Science is searching for truth.
But how does the philosophy of science fit in with Knowledge?
Now the philosophy of the saints, nobody much believed on it, but then a scientific explanation came about energy, that energy is never created and never destroyed, and everyone has started believing in it. Understand, so science is nothing new. They have taken a thing and they are cutting it about, and God is in that thing. They took the atom and broke it apart, and energy came out of it. So this is the practical thing. This Knowledge is an internal practical thing, and science is an external practical thing. They mix together very well. Science gives us more examples; science gives us many examples. To make people understand this Knowledge there are many scientific examples. People ask me, "Why should we be low, when you are high?" and I say there is a scientific explanation for it. When something is high then it will always flow down to something that is low. Yes?
Is liberation higher than devoted service to the Lord?
Well, it just means merging.
Fine. Being one with something and not coming back. What's devotion? From where did the word 'devotion' start? Just reverse the process. Devotion came from devote, devote came from devotee, devotee came from divine. The divine thing gives you something and you become a devotee, devotion starts and you become devotional. So now both things are before you and you can see the difference, liberation and devotion. Can you see the difference between the two? Liberation – just one with something, no actions. Devotion – one with something, actions. See? When Rama came, Hanuman also came, and served Him. There was one time when Lord Rama was really pleased with Hanuman, and He asked him, "Hanuman, what do you want? I'll give you one thing, and whatever you want, I'll give it. If you want devotion, I'll give you devotion. If you want liberation, I'll give you liberation." Hanuman said, "What would I do with liberation? I don't want liberation, I want devotion, so that I can be Your devotee. So that I can have Your physical presence, so that I can have Your Darshan, so that I can do some service for You. What the hell would I do with this liberation? I'll just be there, I won't be seeing You, I won't be doing anything. I'll just be one with the frequency." So the Lord gave him devotion, and if you see some pictures of Krishna and Arjuna on the chariot, you will see Hanuman sitting on the top. Hanuman 'was at the time of Rama, but then He came as Arjune too. How Hanuman met and served Lord Rama is a very wonderful story. Hanuman was an ape, a big powerful ape, and there are many stories about him. I think that is enough for today. Remember to come to the big satsang programme on the 6th.
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