Prem Rawat (Guru Maharaj Ji) / Q & A / Toronto / September 25, 1971

What is Grace?

After you have received Knowledge, and you are going on that straight highway, but you want to go faster, then you request Grace. And Grace comes. If you are going 70 miles an hour, it enables you to go 140 miles an hour. This is Grace: to make a man more able to do what he is doing. Understood?

What must I do to receive your Grace?


I want your Grace.

When a plane is in the sky and the pilot wants to land, he requests the airport advisory, and then he is given it, and then he lands. Okay? So if you want Grace, request that. Yes?

Why should it happen that I feel more confused after I asked for Knowledge?

Suppose there were too much dust in this room. And it was raining, so that dust was not just all about the room, but was sticking. When you take the cloth to dust it off, and you go like this (sweeping motion), what happens? More and more dust comes, right? And it becomes dustier. You can't even see any object when you start doing that. But after some time, everything gets clear.

When you have a silt of confusions over your mind and you take them out, they start blowing up. And you feel more and more confused. If there is silt, a layer. And if there is not, then it is okay. Understand?

If you start to question yourself again, then you create more dust!

It comes. But it has to come because you are shaking it from there.

Well, then how do you get rid of it completely so that it doesn't just settle and …

There is too much dust on the car, right? And you take paper or you take a cloth, and you start dusting the car. What happens? More dust appears to come off. But that dust will go up on something else, not on that car now. And after some time you will notice that all the dust has been cleared away from the car.

When you sweep your house - in India we have got other things than vacuum cleaners - we take that and we clean our house. When we clean our house, much dust comes. But then it disappears. It looks clean. See?

Then it's good, because it should come out.

It will come out. Whether it is good or bad it will come out (laughter). It's natural. Yes?

What is sin?

To do something very wrong. … that I feel guilty about. Yeah, that is a sin.

Are there any sins?

There are sins. That's why you feel them. See, there are sins which a man commits, and he really feels guilty about them, probably throughout his life. There are some murderers who do murder and can't sleep all night. Throughout their life they can't sleep. They feel guilty. They think that some ghost is coming. The same ghost is coming from their guilt. This is sin.

And there are more sins like this. Probably there are many more sins. And God has given consciousness in everybody - in you also, and everybody - to know, to make out which is wrong and which is bad. Like, a thief steals something and gets very afraid. Why? His consciousness says, "You have done something wrong, very wrong. You shouldn't have done that."

Have you read the story of Macbeth? What happens when Macbeth comes back after killing the king? How much does he feel in his heart? He says that "The whole world is becoming red. I shouldn't have done that probably." That is, his consciousness was scolding him: "What have you done?"


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971
"Guru Maharaj Ji comes here to bless everyone equally. Same Knowledge for everybody. But it is up to us how much we receive it … It's up to us how much we utilize it."

And before you try to do anything, consciousness says, "Are you sure?" When you start doing something which is wrong, consciousness says, "Don't do that." When you do something good, consciousness says, "Go ahead; do that. Embrace it. It will make you more pleasant."

So God has given you that automatic computer. But when mind becomes much greater than you - when you become the slave of mind- surely consciousness tells you many things, but you don't obey it. Like thieves. There are many thieves who steal. Their consciousness tells them, "No, this is wrong," but still they do it.

Well, wouldn't that be just the way your parents formed your character, more than true sin?

What parents formed your character? What character have parents formed? I have seen and I have observed that many parents loosen their children from their hands as soon as they are born. They probably are interested to utilize their young life in doing this: that is, eat, drink, and be merry, and so on. That's why so many children are loosened. So many cases happen. Parents are confused, sort of: What is happening to their children? And that is probably true with you also. You see, other people are getting very confused about "What is happening to our children?" You probably all know that all the very elderly people don't like what young people are doing today. See?

Have you seen a foundation? Suppose the man who is building that foundation never pays attention while he's making that foundation. But he tries to pay his full attention when he's making the wall, to make that wall straight. He cannot make that wall straight, because he has placed the foundation wrong. It's up to mothers, how they place the foundation. It's up to the father how progressive he makes his child. You understand that. Yes?

Is it possible when you receive Knowledge to cause a change to come about within yourself that will right any kind of misunderstanding, or any kind of confusion that you have?

See, when a man gets this Knowledge, and he starts meditating upon that: really progressive. Then he's completely changed. He's completely changed. There's a complete change in him.

Is there a different time for each person, like when they will reach enlightenment? Is that a stage you recognize?


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971 No. This is a contrast that has been made by a saint who loved Satguru. He says that God has made everything according to His timetable, but Guru has cancelled that timetable. Guru says, "Get away," and he does what he likes. And people must know Knowledge after that.

Well, if it is our desire to become a teacher, or become someone like yourself, who may help anyone out no matter what kind of problem, or enlighten people in a certain way to meet their specific condition, is it possible to reach the condition of a Perfect Master?

As long as there is a desire for a Perfect Master; nobody can reach Perfect Master's stage. And becoming Perfect Master is not going in the school and receiving a degree on your head. But it is the Grace, the hand of Grace receiving it on your head. And that's not like that: (snaps his fingers).

Is there a different amount of Grace in each of us, according to how badly we desire?

See, have you seen a carburetor? And the suction pipe from where the petrol is sucked up?


It is the matter of that hole as to how much petrol it can suck. If the hole is wider, much petrol will go. If the hole is short, little petrol will go, no matter how much petrol is coming in that carburetor. You know that governor? People try a governor in their cars. Holes become shortened and their cars can't run too much, no matter how much petrol is coming in their carburetor.

Guru Maharaj Ji comes here to bless everyone equally. Same Knowledge for everybody. But it is up to us how much we receive it. It's up to us how much attention we pay to that. It's up to us how much we utilize it. See?

If you are ready to die and you receive the Knowledge, and your only desire there is to utilize that Knowledge - or meditate - can you stop doing everything else? Like that's what I'd like to do. I would like to stop eating; I would like to stop doing anything until I reach this stage where it doesn't matter what I do.

See, general says, "Go and fight!" And I take off all my military clothes, and wear my civilian clothes, and go with my gun to fight. I am obeying one order of the general - to fight but not the other one: to wear that kind of dress. Eating is a law of nature for a man. As soon as he discards this suffering. Another battle comes to him.

You know Buddha Bhagwan? He sat in meditation. He said, "I won't eat anything." He sat, sat, sat. And what became of him? His stomach touched his back, but he couldn't gain anything.

Well, he almost died, right?

But then what happened? We see two photos of Buddha Bhagwan. We see one photo which is so thin, and one photo which is healthy. And if you read the book about that, you'll find one photo which is healthy, which is really amazing. There is divinity in that. Because there the body is following all the laws of nature. Eating, and meditating also.

Are you saying that no matter now enlightened you are, you must eat if you want to reach any nirvana?

See, by eating or not eating you won't get enlightenment. You don't get enlightenment from eating. If you stop eating you won't get enlightenment or anything like that. You are eating for your stomach, not for your soul. And there is a completely different food for our soul. So no matter what is happening to our body, still we can


I think so. But I'm still wondering: If you no longer have a desire to live, if you wish to die …

Have you received that Knowledge?

No, I have not.

When you receive that Knowledge, you will love to live instead of die.

Well, what's the reason for retaining your body if you're enlightened? What's the meaning?

Listen, tell me one thing. Jesus was enlightened, right? Was Jesus Christ enlightened or not?

Yes, I think he was. I don't know.

Be sure. Don't think; don't imagine. He was enlightened. But he never said, "Okay, I want to commit suicide. And I'm going to commit suicide." He said, "I will live."

See, eat to live but don't live to eat. That's what you are doing. And when you have dedicated your life to someone …

I have dedicated my life to this work, to this service. So I have got no right to finish my life by myself, because I have dedicated it. It is not mine. That's why when we sit for receiving this Knowledge, we say, "Okay, dedicate it." So we have got no right on it. And then it becomes like a credit card. It belongs to someone but we are using it. Yes?

It seems to me that if you have this Knowledge, and you meditate, or reach a certain stage, there won't be any more desire. So what is motivating you?

So then, not to eat is also a desire. See: desire again!

Once there was a king. And he said, "I have done too many things, too many wrong things." But he was really a good king. And he said, "I am going to be a thyagi." (You know what a thyagi is? Someone who leaves everything of his, and goes and sits and meditates.) So he said, "I am going to be a thyagi, and I am going in the jungle." He went in the jungle.

And when the neighbor king knew that he had taken sanyasi, that he had become a thyagi, he said, "I will attack this kingdom."

When the queen knew this, she went, changed her whole face and everything, and went to that king and said, "Maharaj, who are you?" And the king said, "I am a thyagi."

She asked, "Maharaj, what is the meaning of 'thyagi?" And he said, "Well, thyagi means he who has discarded everything."

In olden days people in India used to have - and even now they have - a sort of pot in which they carry water. She said, "Maharaj, to whom does this belong?"

He said, "To me." She said, "Then what sort of thyagi are you? You are possessor of this pot. And you said that you are a thyagi?"

So that king took that and threw it out. And then she said, "Maharaj, to whom does this but belong?"

"To me."

"What sort of thyagi are you then?" So he burned his but also.

Ultimately he threw away everything. And she said to Maharaj, "To whom does this body belong?"

"To me."

"Then what sort of thyagi are you?"

Discard it from your mind, not from your body. Whatever you have to discard, discard it from your mind, not from your body. Discard eating from your mind, not from body. To discard eating from your mind means: A man wishes to have so many flavors when he eats. That is his mind eating. Understand?

You don't know what life is. Until you know what life is, you don't know how to utilize it. You give a Chevrolet or Cadillac or Rolls Royce to a monkey and what will he do? Sometimes he will beep the horn, sometimes he takes the keys to start it, sometimes he does something else … He never knows what the car is. But as soon as he knows, he won't do it like that. He thinks that "I have nothing to do with this car now. "He will lock his car and go away. And when he wants to utilize it, only then will he come to use it.

You don't know what life is. Nobody knows life till he has received Knowledge. And as soon as people receive Knowledge, they realize what life is and they know how to utilize it.

I find myself doing work every day. But I find my work being directed by people who are using my efforts to destroy the Earth. So you still have these skills on your hands. You still can do these things. But you want to do them in a positive manner; you don't want to destroy the Earth. You want people to enjoy the things that you've made for them.

Well, how can a man enjoy a bomb?

This is what I mean.

That's why Satguru teaches everybody a single


skill: that is to meditate, and to give satsang, which everybody can do for everybody. That's why he teaches one universal skill, easiest to perform, with benefit for you and also for a man whom you are speaking with. Many people who are sitting here must know about this! Suppose somebody has gone out and told someone about me, and now they have come here. Many have come like this, see?

That's why the need of Satguru is here. See, any disturbance, any corner jutting out in this world, Satguru comes and makes it round. That's why Satguru is here. He makes the political circumstances normal, material circumstances normal, spiritual circumstances normal. Every circumstance. So the sages have said that he is the greatest politician also, philosopher also, Master also, teacher also, Guru also, or whatever you call him. See?

Guru Govind Singh came. He was a great politician. He united all the sects into one and fought. Ram came. He was a great politician. And as you know, Krishna was one of them also. He says fight by the same means: Knowledge! He makes one fight! Great politician, great materialistic reformer. Because he will save everybody and destroy what has to be destroyed. And he will save everybody.

Guru has got something so powerful that nobody can destroy it. So, even if he jumps in the bomb, He won't be destroyed, but the bombs will be destroyed.

There is a story about Prahlad. The father of Prahlad never wanted Prahlad to say anything like "God." He wanted that "he should believe in me as God." And so, ultimately, he tried many things. And Prahlad's sister, Holika, had a blessing that she wouldn't ever be burned in her life.

So Hirnakashyap (Prahlad's father) said, "Okay, Prahlad, you sit in Holika's lap and we will produce fire here." Hirnakashyap knew that the sister wouldn't be burned, and just Prahlad would be burned. So Prahlad sat in the lap of Holika, and started meditating upon that Holy Word of God. When the fire burned, Holika was burned and Prahlad was saved! Because he had that Knowledge.

That's why Satguru stands in between bombs and his devotees. He has got such a huge hand that he puts it over his devotees and devotees are saved. Bombs burst, come on his hand, nothing happens to him. That's why he comes into this world. Yes?

If you have not experienced. suffering, how do you feel about it? Suffering is only for …

Who has not felt suffering?

I hope you have not. Because from childhood you were beyond human nature. How could you suffer?

Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971 Much suffering has come to me. People who receive Knowledge give their sufferings to me! They don't just hang their sufferings on a tree. They give their sufferings to me. Much suffering has passed through me. Don't bother about that! That's why I'm sitting here. That's why I am sitting here! Because I knew that riches wouldn't make a man satisfied. And America was a rich country. It's supposed to be a rich country; it's really not. It is supposed to be a rich country.

And that's why I have come here. To help these people. If I never had felt what suffering was, I never would have known what suffering really was! But I know, because tremendous sufferings have passed through me. People who are crazy have given their craziness to me! People who were really suffering have given their sufferings to me. But I have got a box, and I put each of those sufferings there, and burn that box into that place where all the sufferings are burned. Nothing is left. So anybody who has got sufferings: Receive this Knowledge and give your sufferings to me.

Then there is not such a thing as nirvana?

What is a nirvana?

I mean, I don't know, but they say that Perfect Masters do not suffer ever, because they reach to that nirvana level. Whatever it is.

See, I told you that I don't suffer. Much sufferings passed through me, but I don't suffer them. I keep them in a box!

But then what happens to that suffering that you put in the box? Where do you get rid of it?

I burn it. I burn it! Yes?

Is all suffering external?


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971 Well, there are internal sufferings also. If a man who was a rich man lost all his money, he would go crazy: internal suffering. I cut my hand: external suffering. But there is no suffering to soul. Yes?

How do you disengage your self from a whole set of artificial relationships with people?

What is artificial, let it be. Why should I disengage myself from people? In India, I think I have got so many relatives that nobody in Dehra Dun has as many relatives as I have. But I don't just get away from them. I said, "Okay, come. You are welcomed." What is artificial, let it be artificial. Because I have nothing to do with artificial. I have to do with what is natural and real. I am concerned with that.

When you go to pick up grapes, you don't pick up the whole root, the whole bunch of that tree, and put it in your pocket. But you put only the grapes in your pocket. You leave what has to be discarded. Understand that?

When you go to pick a flower, you don't pick it from the root and put it on your collar. You just take a flower and discard everything else. Put the flower where you want. Same way, people come to me, try their artificial …

Like somebody says, "Oh, I'm your uncle." Somebody says, "I am that. I am that." Okay. Let it be. You are. Let it be. But I have nothing to do with that. I'm going around, see? If anybody wants to have it, he can have. But I am not concerned with that. Understand? And same way, you can also do that. Anybody can do that. It's very easy.

I've received Knowledge, but how do I love you?

You just meditate upon that. That's all. Yes?

Once everybody has received Knowledge, what will initiators do? (*** text edited in 1978, should read mahatmas ***)

Initiators will sit and relax! (laughter) And I will relax then! Yes? No more questions?

Can we impart the Knowledge to other people, so that they desire to have the Knowledge also?

First you are a receiver of this Knowledge. You are a receiver. You are receiving. But to give, you have to be a giver, not a receiver. You have to be an initiator, appointed by Guru Maharaj Ji, and not just because you feel you are an initiator.

First receive this Knowledge. Then think about imparting it. You haven't received the Knowledge yet and you want to impart it! You are dreaming about it.

See, suppose I don't know how to swim, and I go in a swimming pool, and I see that your little baby is getting drowned. And she is in the deeper part of the swimming pool. I don't know how to swim, and I jump into that. I will hold her, and I will also take her down! To swim I should first know swimming.

First I should be a Master to give. If a second- grade boy says, "Okay, I know A-B-C-D, and I'm going to teach this A-B-C-D to those boys," he cannot do it. If a fourth-grade boy says, "I know how to teach A-B-C-D, and I am going to the first grade to teach this," this is not possible. You understand?

You have to tape the tape, in case you want to play it. You have to first tape on that tape. You have to record on the tape, if you want to play it. No more questions? Yes?

Is there eventually a point when you come to know that you can give it, if you reach that?

See, here I'm confused. Do you want to be Masters or do you want to be disciples? (laughter) First tell me this! If you want to be Masters, then tell me that. And if you want to be disciples, then tell me that.

What should we be?

Disciples! Being a Master is a very dangerous thing. Because all the sufferings come to you, and if you can't resist them, you'll die. Yes?

May I receive the Knowledge?

Yes. That makes some sense. Not too much, but a little bit! (laughter) Yes?

Before receiving Knowledge, do we have to dedicate our life?


So, you think that all this is free of charge! Yes?

Why is there physical suffering?

Why is there Peace? Because there is Peace, there is suffering. Where there has to be day, there has to be darkness. Eventually, even in "Eskimoland," after six months, night also comes.

To make the bulb light up, first you have to turn it off. If the bulb is already lit, then how will you light that? To bring forth Peace into this world, there have to be sufferings. Then there'll be Peace.

Why? Why does there have to be suffering?

Why should there be night before the day? I don't know why it all happens.

Because if there were no night, the day couldn't have risen. If there were always a day, if there were no night, it would always have been a day, and then nobody would have considered what a day is.

Take the button of the recorder, and put it on "rewind," and let the tape rewind. And when it comes to the beginning, then start and you will find it!

See, this came here for you. This world is for you, and you have to take privilege of this world.

Make the full utilization of this world. And night and day came for you. If there were no night, you would have been dreaming crazy till now. You wouldn't have slept. Surely you would have been crazy!

To get Grace do you have to ask for it?


Can I have Grace? (Many people say this simultaneously)

Yes. Yes?

If we received the Knowledge and we didn't practice it, would you withdraw your Grace?

Yeah. I will return to you what you gave me.

Are there people who receive Knowledge who, even though they want to make it grow and they plow the field, can't make it grow?

Where there is a will there is a way.

What about the planes that are higher than this? The psychic? Astral plane? Things like that? Are they of any importance?

Go to TWA and ask them! (laughter) And ask them about their tourist maps and everything. They will tell you everything, and you can know what it is.

People are really going away from the point. I'll just go! Yes?

Is there never a case where the ego is stronger than the Knowledge?

See, ego is never stronger than the Knowledge. But when we become a slave, we think that. Yes?

Why is life given form? Why are babies born?

Do you think babies are useless?

Oh, no, I don't.

So, that means if they aren't useless, they have got some purpose. Let them complete that purpose. See, once you were also a baby.

Guru Maharaj Ji, when we receive your Knowledge, isn't it your Grace that reveals the Knowledge?


Well, I ask you for your Grace, but wouldn't it be kind of redundant to ask you for your Grace again, if you've given it to us?

Ask again and again … No harm.

May I receive your Grace? (Many speak simultaneously)

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Everybody will receive Grace. Don't bother (laughter). Yes?

If it just so happens that everyone here wants to receive Knowledge, why don't you just give it to us right now?

Why should I give it? Why should I give it? It is up to my will. I have got the steering wheel. It is up to my will where I should take it. It is up to my will. Your part is to ask; my part is to reveal. You think Knowledge is free of charge where you just get it like that. It's not like that. You have to give a most precious jewel of your life for this Knowledge. People think Knowledge is free of charge. Really it is free of charge, because you haven't paid money or credit card or checks or dollars or cents. But you have to pay the most precious thing that is alive. Very expensive! Very nourishing. Very good.

What is it that we have to give of?

Your promise.

Can you tell me the name of anything which you can take without giving? Anything? Materialistic thing, spiritual thing, anything which you can take without giving?

There's sunlight. What do you give when you take sunlight?

No. If you have to take sunlight, you have to open


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971 your eyes. You have to pay attention. And for air, first you have to give out what you have in your lungs, and then you can breathe. Tell me anything. Anything that you can imagine in your mind which you can take free of charge. Anything. Come on! Anything, anything you can think of.

I can't think of anything.


Well, this doesn't tell me anything.

See, that tells you that you have to give before you receive. You have to empty out a bucket before you fill in the water there.

Well, you have to know what the bucket is first, don't you?

Yes, you have to know that. And if somebody is so razy that you never know that there is a bucket, something like that or not … so, hopeless. Okay, we will give you this Knowledge free of charge! Okay?

But doesn't …

You want it for a charge? (laughter) When I told you :hat we will give it to you free of charge, you said, "But … Yes?

You meet us with so much energy. Do you ever get tired?

No. No. In a function which takes place near Delhi, I am awake three days and three nights doing the work. Three nights and three days. Only awake.

Are you tired?

No, God will be tired instead of me (laughter).

Why do we get tired?

Because it is your credit card. Because you are using yourself for it. You get tired because you are using yourself for it. Yes?

May I serve you?

Yes. By all means!

Will you help me serve you better?


After we receive Knowledge, will we then know how to serve you?

Yes. You're supposed to!

Do we offer ourselves for service or are we chosen for service?

Half chosen and half offered. Both. Yes?

I received Knowledge yesterday. And I'm much more at peace, but I don't know yet how to serve you. Will it come?

First you meditate upon that. First you meditate upon that. Then you will know. The first service is to meditate upon that Knowledge. Yes?

Will we be taught techniques of meditation when we receive Knowledge?

Don't guess about it. Don't be impatient about it. Be patient. Have patience. Tomorrow morning you will get it. Okay? No more questions? Tired of asking questions?

Satsang! Satsang! Satsang! (Several yell out)

What is satsang?

Company of Truth.

Company of Truth! Where is Truth? Right here! (laughter)

You are having company with Truth, because Truth is within. You are with it, so you are having satsang! (laughter) Yes?

We are impurity and you are purity. Impurity can only learn from purity.

Okay. Then learn patience!