In Conversation: Rajiv Mehrotra interviews Guru Maharaj Ji Prem Rawat, 17th May 2006
Rawat's speeches were not written or prepared but they are certainly not unrehearsed. The speeches preceding his current one are the rehearsals and the speeches following evolve gradually using the same store of tales, premie gossip, clichés, life events, recent tv shows and stock phrases.
I imagine Rajiv Mehrotra must have gone "I'm supposed to interview who?" He soon learned that Rawat was not one for dialogue and had a lot of loud and unpleasant cackling laughs at Rawat's expense. There were some difficult sections to understand where they talked over each other. It must have been a coup for Maharaji to get on this prestige show as it was given much PR spin.
Rawat relies on two of his buzzwords in this interview: 'breath' and 'thirst.' 'Breath' didn't last very long as Rajiv kept bringing up more of the differences in peoples' breathing. 'Thirst' is a metaphor that anyone can understand. Mehrotra immediately understands what Rawat really means by 'thirst,' it is the feeling of not being satisfied or satisfied enough in your life. Rawat makes one thing explicit. Once a person gets "the thirst" they get the Knowledge. Once an aspirant has accepted Rawat's 'thirst' concept with everything included in that conceptual bubble, they're ready to be revealed Knowledge, at least as ready as they can be. The Knowledge itself is so disappointing that there was still a major drop out rate in 2006 or as Prem put it they'll receive Knowledge and then it's like, "Okay, you know, GONE!"
Rawat says he is very much "enjoying this conversation because of the two different perspectives that exist here. One perspective is very much saying "I think" and the other perspective is saying "I know."" Mehrotra ignores the insult or doesn't catch what Rawat is saying.
By this time, Maharaji had begun to talk about speaking about peace since he was four years old. One assumes he thought the people he spoke to would not know of his scandalous years as the teenage Lord of the Universe. We have copies of his earlier speeches in which he spoke about his father revealing the Knowledge to his sons. What he said to Mehrotra is total fabrication. He now has his father speaking in Prem's own decade 2000s concepts and vocabulary.
My father, it was very fascinating because what he was talking about is exactly this … I'm offering the water and he called and he sat us down and he says "Do you want to be able to get in touch with that beauty that is inside of you?" and we said "yes!" … Well, this is what he said "Do you aspire, do you aspire in a real way?"
He tried out a new verb in this speech 'masking' but as far as I can tell didn't expand its use. We, in the affluent West, as it hardly applies elsewhere, manage to mask our boredom with all the gadgets and paraphernalia that Rawat, himself, loves. In doing this we mask our real thirst for the Knowledge. Thirst = boredom? He also introduced 'template' as a synonym for ideas,concepts, philosophies, etc. He has used that sparingly after its 9 uses in this sinterview.
- Mehrotra's introduction sounds like he's reading off an EV/TPRF blurb. It's possible he knows nothing about Rawat
- Prem Rawat says he started talking to people "from an idea that everybody can improve their lives" - Later he said: "I'm not there to tell them "Oh by the way, you can impro-o-ove yourself" - Prem Rawat's First Law of Improvement: You can improve your life but you cannot improve yourself!
- Asked when it (revealed Knowledge) happened he replies "I was 4 years old" - wrong: he was 6 years old He first spoke on stage when he was 4
- Actually Hans Rawat did not say "I'm not interested in all that other stuff, that's fine do it your way" - He wasa fierce critic of every other religious or spiritual figure.
- peace is within you. This is the hardest thing for people to comprehend - Talk show hosts understand and teach it, Hollywood actresses explain it better than Rawat
- Through the help of my Master. I have found the water - Just a little bit of help?? How can you repay him? How can you explain his Glory?
- Mehrotra takes an unkind but understandable dig at Rawat near the end: "What would you say to Bin Laden and George Bush? … as the Great Master who's impacted so many million people. What advice would you give them? What would you say? "Just feel thirsty" "Look at the sun" What would you say?"
In Conversation: Rajiv Mehrotra interviews Guru Maharaj Ji Prem Rawat, 17th May 20006


RM: Hello and welcome to my series of programs and conversations with men and women of ideas, vision and philosophy who help define our contemporary world. My guest today is described variously as a Guru Maharaji, Prem Rawat, as an inspirational teacher speaker. He's reportedly impacted the lives of more than nine million people over several decades of teachings in some 90 countries. In India alone, 3000 centres. There are 7000 events conducted every day that spread his message and his teachings and impact the people of India. He's addressed United Nations conferences, universities and is an established voice for the pursuit of peace and knowledge as as he describes his essential message. I'm delighted to welcome Guru Maharaji Prem Rawat, tell us of the evolution. What came first? Prem Rawat or Guru Maharaji because when you were 3 years old, you know the literature on your website tells us that, you know, you were already speaking and addressing audiences at 4. You published, you know, the first pieces that you spoke were published you know, for for for both of us, a little bit more, how do I put this, mundane lives. That's that's quite an achievement at three years to be speaking to people. And you were born the son of um a Satguru, you know, held and held out as being the guru for our times and that's quite a heritage and quite an amazing background and for for for decades you were, you were, you were hailed, recognised, addressed as Guru Maharaj Ji and now you're Prem Rawat. Tell us about the interface between these two.
PR: I want to begin with just saying that, for me, and I I'll bring this down to Earth. (knowing laughter from Mohretra) because I'm me. I don't remember being born. I do remember talking to people. That came from a compassion, from an idea that everybody can improve their lives, that there's more to this existence. I don't look at myself as Prem Rawat. I don't look at myself as Guru Maharaj Ji. People called me that. They call me many things. Those are names. Nouns, sometimes adjectives but I am me, whoever I am, the breath comes into me. I exist. I I have my good, I have my bad. I exist and all I really want to do is be very, very thankful that I am alive, that the breath comes into me, that that's a gift. And I want to recognise the gift that I am given with each breath.
RM: But yet, but yet, you know, we, we, we, all of us, carry an identity. And it's an identity we use. We have to use it. We have to get passports. name done. We get literature printed. We have websites and people change those identities if they're not comfortable with them sometimes. So in terms of the identities or the names, at least, you know, sort of the placards, our choices that you make, and those choices represent perceptions of realities or changing realities. So it's in that sense that I wondered. That what is that that changing reality for you, that you this has moved? Or, I mean, I'm not sure which came first, but whichever did. And I'm interested in really the journey of someone who's teaches people the pursuit of peace.
PR: I am me, me. I'm this being that has a limited time on the face of the earth. I can feel pain, and I can feel joy. I can feel good and I can feel bad. And a being who has a natural bias to want to feel happiness and peace in his life. I have children. I have a wife. I have other relatives. I have responsibilities. And for me, there are certain needs that I have that are fundamental and innate to every human being on the face of this earth. The want to feel peace is fundamental to every human being.
RM: Here in India, we have the notion of Sadhana, which really means a journey, a practise, the use of a technique. What has been the nature of your Sadhana? Have you had a Sadhana? Is there a process that you, that you seek, that you cultivate, that you go through, that you have been through from incompleteness to completeness, or in whichever, again, this is semantic? There are traditions that will say, you know, the truth and the reality is within you. It's really just a question of unveiling the ignorance and reach the reality. Think of the semantics of it. Have you had a journey and what is the nature of that journey?
PR: Well, I think that it has to be put in a perspective here. People have beliefs. It's like a bus and in the bus, there is maybe 30 passengers, and one is wearing a purple sari, and one is
RM: Tell us about you as the passenger.
PR: I will. I will. I will. And maybe somebody's wearing a blue suit and somebody's wearing a grey suit and whatever it may be. But when the bus is in trouble. Say if it runs out of fuel. They all stop travelling. They can all have their preferences People have their preferences. Some believe in Christ. Some believe in Buddha, and they should.
RM: But there are different buses and different destinations.
PR: We're talking about one bus with many passengers in it. This is one planet Earth. This is our time. Each one of us is given our one time. We cannot borrow that time from somebody and we cannot give it to somebody.
RM: So in the time that you have, what is your journey? Which bus are you on? What colour clothes are you wearing?
PR: I want to travel in the bus of reality. My experience, not theory. Not suggestions. But I want to feel my fundamental reality.
RM: Is your fundamental reality likely to be the same as my fundamental reality?
PR: It should be. The breath comes into you. Breath comes into me.
RM: But we breathe differently.
PR: No, we think differently. We breathe the same.
(Rawat keeps interrupting Mehrotra and it gets confused ->)
RM: No, we breathe the same but some of us breathe rapidly and feel anxious or feel different emotions
unintellligible
RM: depending on the kind of breath
PR: but the breath
RM: some of us breathe sort of in the upper part of the chest. Some of us breathe in the lower aspect of the chest. We do breathe differently, but we breathe yes and breath will behave differently (unintelligible)
PR: and when the breath stopped it affects us the same and when a person stops breathing we all go into the same state. We are no more alive. These distinctions that we are getting caught on is the very reason why there is so much confusion in this world
RM: well there is, there are different perceptions, there are different experiences of reality. My reality is different to your reality. HA HA HA HA
PR: What's the difference, what I'm trying to get to is the sun is shining outside and there's a bunch of people sitting in the room discussing what the sun looks like and. somebody says, well, it should be like this or it should be like this. It should be like this. What I'm saying let's just step outside and see it.
RM: What I'm suggesting and then really looking at is your insight and wisdom, is that we're actually looking at the sun differently and what you're saying is it's really is only one sun and that the fact that bin Laden and George Bush are looking and and and seeing the sun differently is the source of of a great conflict. It's a source of millions of people dying and because they're looking at two different realities. You're assuring us, no, there's only one reality and I think that is leading to conflict. So what would you say to George Bush and Osama bin Laden to the different suns, different realities that they see. What will they stop there is only one reality, it it it synchronises, it is the one reality but that's not how they're seeing it. Maybe if they did, there wouldn't be conflict, in the meanwhile what do we do?
PR: Well I didn't think that all those issues come because they're not looking at the sun. If they were really looking at the sun, they'd be just looking up and going "There it is." The fundamentally, the realities of human beings as we are, not what we can believe in, and not all our aspirations and our accomplishments and our ideas and our theories and our philosophies. But all the people on the face of this earth, all the people on the face of this earth, have the same fundamental reality, we come, we exist and we die.
RM: Some of us think we take rebirth.
- You are watching a conversation with Guru Maharaj Ji Prem Rawat. We'll be right back after this short break. Don't away. Welcome back to a continuing conversation with Guru Maharaj Ji Prem Rawat. -
RM: Much of your teaching looks at at at knowledge and and and you have different layers of knowledge and different kinds of knowledge that bring about change or transformation and what is this teaching, sharing of of knowledge and what are its dimensions?
PR: You know I'm really enjoying this conversation. The reason I'm enjoying this conversation because the two different perspectives that exist here. One perspective is very much saying "I think" and the other perspective is saying "I know." The Knowledge that I talk about the know how, being knowledge, is the Knowledge to get in touch with that fundamental reality that exists inside of us. It's not a theory
RM: And it's not a journey?
PR: The journey is your existence. That is the journey.
RM: That the journey to the that journey from the lack of, from from the exterior to the interior this bus analogy that you used. You don't have a journey, you're there.
PR: You can feel it, you feel it and that's it
RM: Sure, sure, was there ever a time when you didn't have it? Was there
PR:Of course there was a time when I didn't have it
RM: a journey. So there was a journey. What was the journey? What were the elements of that journey? Was there something that happened? Was its spontaneous? Was there you know the search of the Buddha? Was there, sort of, you know, the the the voice, the voice of God that that comes to the prophet?
PR:For a 4 year old child?
RM: So did it happen when it was 4 or 3? When did it happen?
PR: My father, it was very fascinating because what he was talking about is exactly this. There's so many ideas in this world and that's all fine and great. But then you need to feel something. It's like the person who's thirsty. You can draw him a picture of a well, you can describe water to him but, and that's all well and fine, but at some point that person needs to have that glass of water to be able to quench the thirst and that's what he talked about, he says "I'm not interested in all that other stuff, that's fine do it your way, whatever somebody comes up with a new theory, new philosophy, fine! Great! And it's interesting but I'm offering water. That's what I'm offering. I'm offering water. I'm not offering pictures of the well. I'm not offering all those other interesting things. I'm offering the water and he called and he sat us down and he says "Do you want to be able to get in touch with that beauty that is inside of you?" and we said "yes!"
RM: Okay tell me how?
PR: Well, this is what he said "Do you aspire, do you aspire in a real way?" because if you're caught in what is all those things and then the reality of you. The aspiration, the thirst has to come from within. You see, you can give a glass of water to anyone but that person who is thirsty will enjoy it the most. And that's the difference, is there a thirst, and if there is a thirst, if there is the thirst then that is all the journey you need. To feel that thirst inside of you and you feel that, the water is there That's, drinking the water, for a person who has been thirsty for 2 days, its the smallest part of it but that water can quench the thirst and not "I think I'm thirsty." What would it be like if I were thirsty, not the suppositions, not the theories, not the philosophies, not the ideas but feeling the thirst and you are, as I am
RM: But the analogy of thirst, of course, is that ah sooner later, at some point, we will all get thirsty. It's it's it's something that we will need biologically. It it it's something that's unavoidable and we will feel that thirst and then it is a question of whether we can find the water or not and if we don't get the water we die. So as as a part of that same analogy you're telling me that I have the aspiration. I'm not clear as to what that aspiration is other than that and and unsatisfactoriness perhaps in in in one's life and if I may equate that unsatisfactoriness with thirst, what is the water that will quench my unsatisfactoriness? That's my sort of semantic use of it, I mean we can give it any other word.
PR: Okay, I'd like to just back up a little bit and what I'd like to say is that we are thirsty but we are so good at masking things. We have turned up the volume of everything around us so loud that something within inside of us that is trying to tell us that we are thirsty and please be fulfilled. Which maybe that was there when we were much younger, much younger. We have masked it. The world comes with its responsibilities we undertake those responsibilities and don't mistake me, I'm not saying we shouldn't be responsible. We should be responsible and we should charge our duties all very responsibly but at the same token we have become so good at masking things, we can take a reality, any little reality out there and mask it. We don't like traffic jams so we go and put great stereo systems in our cars so we don't have to sit there and be bored, quote unquote. You fly in your aeroplane these days and there's all the TV's and movies and this and just because we don't want to get bored.
RM: Let's go back to this knowledge of this whole thing of knowledge as well
PR: you have to understand the thirst
RM: I have knowledge
PR: then you begin to understand that there is something that can connect you because the thirst is the proof, is the judgement, to say yes, you need something in your life, you need something
RM: I I I I I have the aspiration that's described as a thirst
PR: For what?
RM: Probably from reality, my reality and my understanding of reality is imperfect. It's not the reality that that you recommend, the unchanging, the universal original, the ultimate absolute one of whatever phrase that you want to use and so, you know, according to your system obviously I'm in touch with a different reality and my perception of reality is flawed. I mean
PR: No no no no I'm not saying
RM: how do I reach that reality that will bring me peace?
PR: So which reality is it?
RM: The reality that you recommend?
PR: Which reality am I recommending?
RM: I have no idea. You have (Rawat talks over Mohretra - unintelligible)
RM: my notion of reality is reality is relative. So we're not heading into what I think or what my understanding is I'm just looking to arrive and looking to understand and learn from you as as as a Master and a teacher as to how I could reach. What do I need to do to reach the peace that you teach and what are the methods and systems of, you know, understanding you're using knowledge to get there.
PR: The first step is to understand that that peace is within you. This is the hardest thing for people to comprehend.
RM: (unintelligible) take me through the steps and I don't know that I'll get there in the next 6 minutes but yes I do believe that too that the peace within us and and and and I have to discover it and reach it. What do I do with that knowledge
PR: Then if you understand that it is and first of all you cannot have templates. I have noticed that the biggest problem people have is they have templates. Everybody has templates. Templates of a perfect life. Templates of a perfect husband. Templates of a perfect kid that you know and people are always surprised because there's very few people who actually can pass that without a template
RM: But you have a template of reality too
PR: No, I don't, that is the point here
RM: A ha
PR: That you come to a point, where you understand, you take your telescope. It's like you're taking your telescope and pointing it to the heavens and it's not like I'm looking for something.
RM: Well tell me. Let's just lead me, lead me through this process.
Just imagine. Yeah, exactly.
RM: I have the strong need
PR: You need a telescope, point it toward the house
RM: I realise that the truth is very difficult - do I need the telescope?
PR: you need a telescope.
RM: What is the telescope?
PR: And the telescope is what your undestanding is
RM: How do you arrive at that understanding?
PR: You arrive at that understanding by taking away all the curtains, all the templates and say No, I don't need these crutches. I can stand on my own feet.
RM: Do you techniques of meditation? What processes do you use that might facilitate sort of inefficient people such as myself to to remove these sort of whatever filters or whatever words you want to use to reach that? Is there a technique?
PR: There are four techniques and I call them techniques of Knowledge
- You are watching a conversation with Guru Maharaj Ji Prem Rawat. We'll be right back after this short break. Don't away. Welcome back to a continuing conversation with Guru Maharaj Ji Prem Rawat. -
RM: Well tell us, times running out HA HA HA HA HA
PR: There are four techniques that take you inside and this what I offer to people and a lot of people say, "Well, what are they? Show it to me? And I say "They will do absolutely no good to you because it is like handing you a glass of water and if you're not thirsty, you gonna go, "what is this? Thank you very much." Take a sip and put it down. If you really want to do justice to it and this is (pauses too long, Mehrotra jumps in)
RM: I'm looking for this glass of water, because I think there's a long journey ahead. I may not get another conversation with you, so I might as well drink up.
PR: I'm around, I'm around!
RM: So give me the glass of water. HA HA HA HA
PR: I'm around. I'll give you the glass of water
RM: Give me the glass of water. Ha ha ha ha


PR: Because to me, from my perspective, giving it to you. First of all, it is my honour and privilege. This is what I do. I go around the world and I talk to people and I'm not making empty promises. But the most important thing that I want to see in you is that clarity and that aspiration. Clarity, I'm not looking through a template, but I want to see what it is that goodness gracious, we have been sitting in this room. We've been talking about the sun. And you know what? Maybe I've forgotten what the sun looks like. Maybe I need to step outside and really take a look at it and not have a preconceived idea of what that sun should be like. Let it be no doubt because we create doubts? We create questions. We create our ideas. We create our expectations of how it should be. But it's like revealing something that we have never viewed before and that cannot have templates, that cannot have boundaries ,that cannot have barriers. We need to be in that clarity, that's what clarity is. When we have abandoned the templates, we're not on crutches. We're standing on our own feet.
RM: So I'm not going to get the knowledge of the four dimensions of knowledge that might sort of make a difference to me. HA HA HA HA
PR: Now, first of all understand, first of all understand that what you are looking for is inside of you. Take ???? of that.
RM: Got it.
PR: Take comfort in that. But what you're looking for, you're not incomplete. Don't come to me saying "Complete me."
RM: No, I'm not doing that. I was just asking you
PR: Come to me
RM: that I'm asking you, as out of your compassion and you're caring for millions of people who might be watching this program is to use this opportunity and then I try and sort of carry my voice to you and say you this wisdom, you have this knowledge. Tell us, share it to us. Put us on the path.
So do you?
Whatever.
So do you answer all those wonderful viewers
which I have 9,000,000 people and and and you know that's a figure in your brochure you know 9 million people, ninety countries and then someone has been sort of you know keeping track and that's a huge number you've impacted so we just want to know, we want to learn, what are the elements? what are the stages? what is the journey? what happens? is it just is it as as in many cases the presence that is transforming?
PR: No no no
RM: Is there are a wisdom, is there a teaching or something what is it? HA HA HA HA HA
PR: There's something very very practical there's something very, very practical and it begins with that first step of saying "I do feel my thirst"
RM: and then what happens?
PR: and then once you feel that thirst, you know, its a remarkable thing that happens. Once a person gets the thirst to find the water they do.
RM: Now what's 3 and 4?
PR: They do, that's it, that's 3, 4, 1, 2, 5, 6 and 8, 9 that's everything. They get thirst, they find the water .
RM: You found the water
PR: Through the help of my Master. I have found the water


RM: Do you ever feel thirsty?
PR: Of course I feel thirsty and when I do I turn to that well and drink from it and that well is inside of me as it is inside of you. I'm not here and I don't go and talk to people about how incomplete they are. I'm not there to tell them "Oh by the way, you can impro-o-ove yourself." No, you are manufactured by the most incredible creator and do some justice to that creator in saying and looking not at the flaws but the beauty that has been placed in every single human being.
RM: Well and another time, another conversation, we'll discuss whether I was born of a creator and whether it was sort of evolution or creation. Do you believe in evolution?
PR: Of course I believe in evolution.
RM: Can you believe in creation?
PR: Of course I believe in it
RM: How do the two marry? Would you tell the people (Rawat talks over him)
PR: The creator created the evolutionary process through which all this happens. There's nothing mysterious tell us about it. Obviously some power has facilitated and continues to facilitate the process of evolution and things evolve. I mean, my goodness, I've evolved. I evolve every day.
RM: Ah! You've acknowledged a journey. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
PR: No, I haven't. I've acknowledged evolution. And of course life is a journey. Life is definitely a journey. I am not saying that we are all at our destinations and a bunch of ships parked in a bay. No, we are travelling. Life is a journey. We go through many things.
RM: What is your destination then?
PR: My destination. I have found within me is to have the access to that piece, to that joy, that resides within me, within me, within you, within every single human being, regardless of who they are, what religion they follow what they do. Big distinction, what they do, what their beliefs are, what they think is right and what they think is wrong regardless of that. You know we see differences but we don't see similarities. We see differences, we have become so astute at seeing differences in people. But what about the similarities?


RM: Like I can't help this but, you know, before we conclude what would you say to bin Laden and George Bush? This is something that sort of I've been a bit since come up for me two or three times in this conversation, what would you say to them as as as as at the Great Master who's impacted so many million people. What advice would you give them? What would you say? "Just feel thirsty." "Look at the sun." What would you say?
PR: Well, you know, I have to look at them as human beings
RM: What would you say (Rawat continues over Mehrotra)
PR: Well what what one person has done for the world is terrible and there's other people whose like the other person and don't like the other person.
RM: What would you say to them?
PR: From my perspective, well if it was morning, I would say "good morning" and if it was afternoon I would say "good afternoon."
RM: That's all
PR: That's all
RM: okay (unintelligible)
RM: Thank you very much Guru Maharaj Ji HA HA HA I'm not judging I just in terms of advice when you can life
PR: Just advice I can give them "Have a good life." If people respected life, not all ideas but if people respected life, I think we would have a better world.


RM: Thank you very much Guru Maharaj Ji, Prem Rawat
PR: Thank you
RM: What are you most comfortable with, it doesn't matter, what does it sound your passport?
PR: My passport says Prem Rawat
RM: Thank you.
PR: Thank you.