Divine Light Magazine No 3


Answers from Guru Maharaj Ji
October 1971

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1971 Any questions? Do not laugh, don't waste my time. If you have got anything to ask, ask, otherwise I am going.

Speak to us of universal love please.

What is universal love? What is love? What do you consider love is?

The part of God that is in our hearts.

That part of God is soul. Pure love is devotion: this is really pure. And this, which really comes out of the heart, is devotion. Other loves are all selfish. Anything in the world besides devotion. And your devotion can only be given to Guru. That love can only be generated by Guru. And it is universal love because Guru is a universal thing. Anything more? So, that is all.

Guru Maharaj Ji, why won't you give us satsang?

Nobody asked me to give satsang.


Will you give us satsang?

Yes, on 2nd November in Westminster Hall!

Will you give us satsang tonight, Guru Maharaj Ji?

What is satsang?

Company of truth … you are satsang.

I am satsang!? How can I give you myself? I am not like a tyre that is fitted.

What is the difference between the God in you and the God in anyone else?

What is God? First of all, before you speak about G O D you must know what G O D is. Is it a flower, is it a dog, is it an animal, is it a plant, is it a bird, is it a light? What is it? What do you think God is? Has God got hands? Has God got hands like me? Do you think God is like this? No. You do not know what God is. There is a complete difference. Because you know me and you do not know God, there is a complete difference. People think that God has got hands, fingers, eyes, nose, ears, mouth, tongue and everything. But God is not that. God is power and due to that power everything is living. Only due to that power. God is power. What you have seen in me? I am not power. You are seeing my body and that is not power. It contains power but it is not power. This is a container. But power is power. It is something within me which is probably more divine than anything else, and that is not me. Power is power and power belongs to nobody: it belongs to God. Anyone else is a human being. He is a reaction to that grace, a reaction to that power which is within him. He neither contains power nor is he power.

Yes, there is a great difference between Guru, God, and a human being. Somebody once asked Lord Krishna: "Who is more loving to you, who do you love more, who is he who loves your body but through your body loves you, who loves you as a power? Whom do you love more, people who pray directly to your non-formless thing, or do you love more those devotees who pray to your form?"

He said, "I love those devotees who pray to my formless form but I love them more who pray


to me in my form. Because I can see them, I can feel them, I can touch them, I can go alongside them as they go along." If a pilot is sitting here in the room, and an aeroplane is flying in the sky, he cannot experience the technical feelings which there are, but if he goes up with the aeroplane he can have the technical feeling, he can experience the plane moving and how the plane is taking off. So Lord Krishna says that those devotees who pray to my form are more pleasant to me. Because I can see them. Because I can do lilas with them. You know what lilas are? Lila. I think you know. Divine works of God, divine works of God and almost all works of God are lilas. This world is called Mahalila. This is the greatest lila God has ever created. So many small things rubbing here and here, here and here, here and here, chattering to each other there and there and there. See, Mahalila. So. He says I can do my lila here but I cannot do my lila there because there my form is formless. I am shining but I am not seeing anybody. With this form, though, I am seeing everybody and everybody is seeing me. So, this is what He means. God is, but what He is we have to realize through Guru in the form of our Guru. That is why Jesus had to come. And that is why Jesus had to say "I am the son of God". And when he walked into the temple there it was clarified who was Jesus Christ. When Jesus walked into the temple and the priests asked him "Who are you, tell us clearly today", and Jesus says "I and my father are one", that means I am God. Do you know the difference? Do you know there is a great difference between son and father? Isn't there? Is there no difference between son and father? No, there is too much difference. He is a grown up man and he is a small child. And the father is married to his mother. There is a great difference. See! But Jesus says "I and my father are one". That means that He was His father. That means that He was God. So we must realize, and we have to pray to that form which is God in form.

Is God to be found in stones?

God is not in stones. Kabirdas says instead of going to the temples and praying to statues of stones why don't you pray to your grinder which at least gives you some grain, some flour? Pray to it, it is also stone. And the grinder in your house. In India there are two big round pieces with a hole in-between and you place them like this and then they grind. They are called grinders. So he said why don't you pray to your grindstones instead of to your statues because they at least give you something, at least something, but a statue of stone gives you nothing. It is a statue. If a statue could walk, then why have the American people made Nixon the president? They could have made a statue of President Kennedy whom they bitterly love. But a statue can't walk. So these people make people crazy. When Jesus Christ came who criticized Him? Priests. When Krishna came, who criticized Him? Priests. When Rama came, who criticized Him? Priests. Priests are the first people to criticize God when he comes. Take any of the extreme leaders. First of all priests come in between. See?

Isn't God in everything?

God is in everything, right.

But You said God is not in stone.

God is in stone also, but will He give you anything? If you want to pray to stone, so why not also to your door, why not also to your chair? First thing in the morning when you rise up go to the tap. Right? Why don't you pray to the tap?

But I don't want anything to pray to.

So, God is omnipresent, that is right, but to get God out of something, that is impossible. God is in ground also, do not stand on God. You are sitting on God. God is troubling God now, do not sit on God. When we rise in the sky even God is in the sky also. In the air also even you are sitting on God. God is omnipresent, omniscient and imnipotent.

Why does my mind become very strong and distracting when I come to satsang, especially when I want to come here to be with you?

A man is getting strong daily, right? Now, don't give him any food. He won't become any stronger. His mind is becoming stronger daily. Don't give food to his mind and it won't become strong. Give food to his stomach but not to his mind and it won't become strong. There is an anti-fighting medicine, which is anti-mind-strength medicine, which is always fighting against the strength of the mind, It is called anti-mindstrength medicine. That is this Knowledge. Anyone who takes it regularly, one day he will become well, through this. A man who is crazy and who never takes it at the proper times gets worse and worse and worse and worse. That anti-fighting medicine. That is it. Yes. It won't help your mind to grow but it will make your mind fresher. That is all.

Is there such a thing as evil?


I haven't got evil in my pocket so that I can show you and I haven't got it on me so that I can show you. What is the opposite to good is always evil. See, evil is a power which gives you thought. Evil is a seed and when you sow that seed it will always give you thoughts. That is all. Understand? If you perform an evil action it always causes confusion: that's bad. It is very difficult for western people to realize what is evil and what is good because they have been brought up in a very unsystematic way. Their technology, their materialistic achievements are really far out. See, their minds are filled with technological things, their speed of mind is far out but it is so great that when they try to put brakes on the car overturns. So fast. It should not be so fast. Understand?

Does that mean that there is more than one thing?

What is that?

Is there nothing? Or is there just God?

Man is one. But when he stands up his shadow also appears. He is not shadow. Is he shadow? He is not a shadow. Shadows come because there is an object. A shadow has to come where there is an object. Right? So when God is something, that is one. One is here right, and there is the surroundings of this world, O.K? So when one thing is facing the whole world then automatically the world will be a reflection, it will only be His ego. If you stand in the moonlight He will be twice as you are. Far out. Because it one thing. Reflections are always dark. God is light, but when reflection comes it is dark. See. So one is one, the other is a shadow, and you have to take anti-mindstrength medicine that defies strength of mind and then you become low, your strength is reduced, you become O.K. and you see God.

Guru Maharaj Ji, if our hearts have many doubts, what is the best way to soften them up so that we may take Knowledge?

You give me yourself, you give me your love, and you give me your egos. Have you seen a bull fight? When man fights with bull he takes a red cloth and he shows it like this. And that bull comes flying and wants to hit the red cloth. But the bull falls right here and he crashes and he is saved. I've got a box. I stand like this with that box and you throw your egos, doubts, sufferings to me. I put the box on one side and I stand like this. Now egos and doubts come and enter that box. I take a lighter and burn that box. Box remains and egos and doubts are burned.

Catch it Guru Maharaj Ji, Catch it now.

Not only will I put your egos and everything in that box and burn it so that you won't have any sufferings, doubts, egos or anything. That is nothing. But also you will be a complete human person, a perfect devotee with perfect peace, perfect calmness, and perfect greatness, with bliss and consciousness.

Is there anything we need to take on the jumbo to India with us? Apart from ourselves.

Yes, you need to carry devotion and your memory, not your mind. What do you think, should smoking be allowed in the Jumbo Jet or not? I don't think so. This is a divine truth. Smoking will react against that truth. And people who are going on Jumbo jet should be smart, because when you land in India there will be all press reporters and we have to show them that we are smart people. Perfect devotees of Guru Maharaj. To show that not only have we controlled our minds, but we have also controlled our bodies and we show them. This is the thing that Indian press people like. If you co-operate with me and give good news to Indian press reporter, right, you will put good ideas into their minds and they will write a good report. And when they write a good report many people will know and they will come to me and yes they will receive Knowledge. But if you go on the same original way as many people go from here, they scatter their things, they ever scatter their bodies on the grounds, it won't give a good impression to the press reporters. And I want Divine Light Mission to be like a laser beam, a most shining thing, a most bright thing. And it is not a pretty hard thing to do. You should at least keep your body under control. If you look smart, you work smart. If you don't look smart, you don't work smart. Anyhow you must create the best impression you can on the Indian press reporters. They want to put your photos in the paper. O.K. Understand or not? Just a little bit?

Does this mean we should cut our hair Guru Maharaj Ji?

Anything you like, as long as you look smart. If you don't want to cut your hair, then don't cut it. but look smart even then. A good way and a manner. You should wear something smart so they should know who are you. It is an external impression but before you enter the temple you have to pass something external. Before you enter a country you leave a country and inbetween you have to go through no-man's land. Go from here,


or go from Stuttgart to Switzerland and you will cross a border and then you will pass through no-man's land, right? Before you go to the internal expression you have to cross the external expression, because externality lies before internality. So anything going to the internal heart will have to cross the external body. Understand? Your intellect, your knowledge is lying within you, your love and your devotion is lying within you and any person who wants to seek it out, dig it up, will have to cross your body first. And the rays are the impressions of your body. So these are the first external thing which he will have to cross before he goes in. See? First thing. No smoking. And any where you want to go we are going to provide the best facilities we can. Anywhere you want to go, buses will come, you'll sit in the buses, go, visit that place, come back, sit in the buses, they will take you to another place, sit in the buses again and ultimately come back, in a gathered group, to that place. And if you are smart, I will shine. You are going in the Jumbo Jet because I came to London. I am taking you because I have given you Knowledge. If you are shining then automatically I will shine. If you aren't shining, I won't shine.

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1971

Why not?

Why not? Because before you see a face in the shiny part of the mirror the glass should be cleaned. Only then the reflection will come. That is it. You are the glass and I am the shiny part. But I am standing behind. If you are misted up nobody can see me. If you go out and start critisizing me nobody will come to me. You are devotees, I pass you something and if you create a bad impression of that thing which I have given to you, nobody will have a good impression of it. Because you are the doors for people to come to me. I am somewhere sitting down inside. Before God will come on this earth He has to create His devotees. Then only He can come. Devotees are more important than God even. Than Guru even. Because Guru cannot reveal Himself alone. He needs the devotees to reveal Himself. In the same way God cannot reveal Himself. He needs Guru to reveal Himself. Devotees carry His message. Understand? Good! Everything is clear outside but if my window, my front glass, is very dirty can I see if things are good? No. I see everything is dirty. Everything is hazy. But if my glass is good, even if it is dirty outside I can see everything clearly. But if you are dirty, even if your mind is clear, you can't see me. First thing is a clear view. And this is the cooperation I need from you western people. I don't need money. I can be anything. I can be an engineer, or I can be a doctor. It won't cost money. I can have a £1000 a year. I can purchase land and be a farmer and grow as much as I like. But I don't want money. I want only your devotion. I am hungry for somebody to obey my order. If you can give me that it is well and good. Otherwise I will leave this job which I am doing now, giving this Knowledge to people, and go and sit somewhere in the earth. God has to be bounded by His devotees. And first of all devotees have to obey the order of Guru, but if they obey it once very well and good, then Guru will obey the order of His devotees. Guru says "You have played my part, now I will play your part. Tell me what to do." And that is how Hanuman was able completely to control Ram, who was the Lord in his time. By repeating the Name and by obeying the orders of Sri Ram, Hanuman was able to take Ram in his control. Whatever Hanuman said, Ram had to do it.

A father has four children. He gives love equally to all but he will love that one most who will obey him. There are many devotees but I love only those devotees who obey my order, who love me. I can only love them because there is at least a communication. At least I am having some reflection of them in me. And I am going to see how much you obey because I'll be there to see you every moment. And I'll be there in your wrongs at every moment; after every five minutes I'll be checking to make sure that nobody is falling.


The established church makes a lot of fuss about people not getting married today. In what way should we regard it?

What do you want me to say about that?

You know, should we bother or not?

The answer is on television. Young people talk about these things. To get married or not and all that. All these things are not important. What is first, regard that. These are things which come later on. First of all, realize God and then see to the other things. For a man who gets a commission out of marriage he'll say "No, first thing is marriage and that later on." But the man who gets his commission out of this Knowledge, he will always say "No, no, this Knowledge is first." Some get commission in money. I get commission in grace. And I get twice what they get. If someone gets $500, I get $1000. If someone gets $1000, I get $2000. Twice as much. So, that's why I always say if you really want to earn something take the permission of Maharaj Ji and start giving Knowledge. You'll be a rich man. See, I've got Knowledge, right? See, I'm a rich man. I'm so rich nobody can compete with me. I've got riches, lots of riches. But these riches are something else.

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1971 And you've made us so rich, Guru Maharaj whatever can we do for you?

Start working for me. Do some service and do some meditation. Anything more?

It seems such a small thing?

It is a small thing. You are right. If we come a thousand times and do service to Guru and meditation and whatever we can for Him, still it won't be worth what He has given us. Because what He has given is the mystery of the whole world. That cannot be, we cannot get it. Cannot give it to Him.

Guru Maharaj Ji, which people do you think need the Knowledge and how will you go about giving it to them?

I am giving it to them. You need not bother about that. Three thousand people have taken Knowledge in America, and about one thousand here. When I used to take the mike, even before I took the mike in my hand to speak, people used to look here and there, here and there, and when I started speaking, they used to go like this: "What is he saying?", because they have never heard about this thing. When they heard about a Knowledge which you can meditate on and practise even when you are sleeping they were just amazed and they used to come like, like anything, even crawl, and then they used to take Knowledge and became very, very eager. So, the water will come up when a man becomes thirsty. That is what the Lord said. So when this world needs Knowledge the Lord will come. And now this world needs Knowledge and the Lord has come, and He is giving Knowledge to people.

What happens to people who don't understand and don't practice?

Kabir says if you are standing on a boat and taking someone out of the water, if you can take him out of that river, well and good, take him out. If you can't, then give him two pushes more, otherwise he will bring you down with him. If you are standing in the boat and someone is drowning in the water, take him up if you can. If you can't then give him two pushes more!

Do you only give satsang to people who want to hear it?

Yes, only to them. Not to others. If they don't want to hear it they will misuse it. If they want to hear it they will hear it. Try to use the energy you waste on those people who don't want to hear it on those who do. It'll benefit them more. The other people need more time to become thirsty.


But you don't need to wait for people to ask you, do you?

They themselves come and ask me.

Guru Maharaj Ji, when will you make us all yours, 100%?

You have to develop yourself. You know, you have to be so high that I can catch your hand. At least you should be high enough for me to catch your hand. But I cannot bend down too much otherwise I come down.

Guru Maharaj Ji, if a devotee wants to give himself 100% to you, must he first of all understand his mind?

Not necessarily. He can do service and give himself completely. He must just give all his service to Guru Maharaj, then he'll be a 100% devotee. Put all devotion into the service of Guru Maharaj Ji. If I do service then I am a servant and if I am giving my devotion then I am a devotee.

Then Guru Maharaj Ji, why is it that sometimes we feel intellectually we want to surrender to you but in practice it is difficult?

Because your ego begins to act on you and something wrong happens. Because of circumstances, the ego becomes an obstacle. That is why I say instead of taking a difficult staircase to liberation, there is a direct staircase of devotion so you may go direct. Do not waste all your time, probably taking a wrong road which takes you half way round the world and which you will probably miss many times. Take the direct staircase of service which will not put you in circumstances of egos, doubts, confusions and so on.

Earlier you were talking about the body of man being the crown of creation. Could you explain that?

Yes. This human body is a combination, a mixture, of elements that exist in fire, water, earth and air, and so on. And these elements are composed in such a way that wnat is created from them is the body. This is not the law of evolution or something like that. It is an occurance proclaimed by all the great scriptures. What is this human body? When it dies all the elements go and join those from which they have been composed. Thus is the human body created. It is composition. And in the composition is a main thing, an important part. What is the best car in the world? Rolls-Royce? O.K, take Rolls Royce for instance. Rolls Royce is a beautiful car. But suppose it has got only a motorbike engine. What use would that be? It would not even be a car. It would be of no use. The main thing in that car, and why that car is famous, is the engine, the machinery that it contains. In the same way, this human body is famous, and is so active, just because there is an important thing in it. And this is the soul. This is part of God. This is the important part. God is a pure energy, existing everywhere. But it has got more source in a human body than in an animal, bird or insect. And there is a path existing for the human man called humanity. And a man has to roll down that path for the progress of his character, his knowledge, his faith, or what you might call his belief or his religion. Do you understand? Any questions more?

If you and everybody stopped meditating, what would happen?

If! No answer to if, no question of if. Nobody will do that. The whole world will die. Nothing will be existing. What is the true meditation? You know that. What is the Word? If the Word should finish nothing will be left. It is the common thing.

In the Aquarian Gospel it is written that Jesus after the crucifixion ressurects and comes back in the form of light. He said when I come back my light will be everywhere. So should not a fully manifested being know how to travel in light. I mean dematerialize and rematerialize?

First of all, merge yourself into that light

Can't you rematerialize your body? I mean the Christ in you?

Who is Christ? Who is Christ? Who is Christ?

I mean the higher self, the higher mind You, as when the Aquarian Gospel says through the Christ was created all life.

Alright. This Christ is a pure and perfect energy. The word Christ does not refer to the body of Christ because there was no body of Christ when there was Adam and Eve. And there was no body before Adam and Eve except God. And God created Adam and Eve. And thus the Lord came on. So what was the form of Jesus Christ at that time? When this world was not created? It was perfect and pure energy, perfect and pure light, perfect and pure vibration, what you call primordial vibration. That was its form. And this vibration is so effective, so far out, that if a man sets himself on it


he is automatically carried at a speed, yes, greater than anything in the world. Right to that place where he is in that consciousness where there is light. There is no world there, there is no materialistic thing there, there is no more you are my father, you are my mother, you are my sister and you are my this and you are my that and you are that and you are that and you are that. Nothing is there. Only you. You are also not there. There is only one thing existing there and that is God.

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1971

But some masters are in etheric levels of consciousness and speak of spacecraft, UFOs, which are just bodies of energy … also they are on other planets but we cannot detect them.

I would really like to drive this space-craft, it would be interesting. But listen, there is one thing more. Whether there are other planets or not, this planet is not concerned with that. This planet is concerned with God, the creator of all the planets. And that is all. This planet is going to be the highest of all the planets, higher even than gods. Even gods, without a capital, are lower than this planet. Because for the production of this planet God has to take human body and has to follow certain rules. So high is this planet. All other planets have nothing in them so interesting that a man should know it. Nobody is sure about them anyway. It is only guesswork. What you are talking about now is only guesswork, right? Like in algebra, there is x and there is y and there is z and you have to work out what is t in ten seconds. It's guesswork. Isn't it?

Well, I have been in meditation and seen these evolved people in conscious communication with higher regions, and they have channelled through men on this earth with such a vibration that I felt the presence of these third masters, and they carried specifically different vibrations. You could actually feel their presence. Who are these? How do you explain it?

Simple nonsense, that's all. This is not real. This all nonsense. If you want to feel a vibration, I can tell you of a vibration, I can make you feel a vibration, which is really a vibration, and which elevates a man to the altitude of God, where God's lotus-feets are. The elevation of this point is so high, this vibration has got such an elevation, it contains such power, such magnetic effects, that it elevates a man in a quarter of a half of a quarter of a second to that power where the lotus-feets are, where there is no darkness yet no light that has been created by sun, moon or fire. This light is the source of pure and perfect energy, where there is no pollution, illusion delusion, where there is nothing impure. There is only purity: Even if it rains the drops are also pure. Anything that drops into that vibration is always pure.

In other words the vibration that I felt was an illusory vibration?

I won't say that. Maybe sometimes you do feel vibrations. But first of all, put yourself at the


point where you are capable of merging into God. If you want to merge your car into the traffic first all you have to get to that particular point where the road joins the highway, right? Only then will you be able to merge. Be at that point where it is written 'Merging Traffic'. And in this case a man has to be capable of merging himself. Before this, anything he receives is probably just illusion, and not important for him. Something came and passed away and has caused confusion, probably. Understand? There is only one vibration that is real. Where there is a tree there is grass also, but the grass is not the tree. There is a great deal of difference between the two. So where there is the primordial vibration there are other vibrations also. But they are not true vibrations. Whatever you see is a vibration. This is a vibration. My hand is a vibration, my body is a vibration, flowers are vibrations. Everything you see is a vibration. But the question arises, can you call these vibrations true? No. You can't call them true. The true vibration is that which has made, has caused to exist, all the others. God is the perfect and pure vibration within us. Come here, know what it is, and become satisfied.

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1971Maharaj Ji, does merely practising the Knowledge clear everything up? Does one need to take Knowledge more than once?

If you know the Knowledge you must meditate. It is a rubber that rubs, rubs, rubs, everything. Even what is illusionarily good is rubbed away also. Only spiritual good is kept back. So you have to meditate, meditate, meditate.

Maharaj Ji, is it necessary to take Knowledge before you can follow the path, or do you find the Knowledge by following the path?

You have received Knowledge? No. You don't know what Knowledge is. You are guessing. Knowledge is itself the path and also the destination. It is what it is and it is what it should be. Knowledge is the path to itself and takes us into itself, for it is that vibration we are seeking. It is everything. It is merged with everything. It is the Knowledge. It is the primordial vibration. It is the path to it. And it is it itself. This is Knowledge.

But isn't it possible through purification?

What is purification? It is a word, that's all. Really, it is a word and that is all. In the dictionary it has a few meanings. What is real purification? Till the mind exists no purification can be done. While the mind exists no purification can be done. We say Mahatma Gandhi was a pure man. But while he was a child what did he do? He ate meat. Only once, but he ate meat. How to be pure? Why be pure? The question arises. Why be pure? Because we are impure. Why are we impure? If you can work out the reason for that then you can be pure. So you be the judge. There are many things which claim to be really pure, but are they really pure? A rose never claims to be a rose. Only if it is artificial it will claim "I'm a rose, I'm a rose, I'm a rose." So what is purity? You have to be pure not only in what you do but in thoughts, deeds, and mind, in your memory, your work, actions and in your daily way of living. And how to do that, how to perform it in practice? Saying it is very easy, doing it is very, very hard. Only by taking away your mind can you be absolutely pure. Yes, purity is very good. We should be pure. But how should we be pure? That's all.

After receiving Knowledge, there is some reaction inside one. Can't that inner action begin before receiving Knowledge?

No, it cannot happen before. When sulphuric acid drops on your clothes, what will it start doing? What will be the reaction? Will the cloth first burn, and then the sulphuric acid is spilled on it? No. First the acid comes and then it starts burning. In the same way with this Knowledge. You are guessing about it. You have not received it. Have you seen the Taj Mahal? O.K. So if you say you think the Taj Mahal would be more beautiful with white stones in it you're only guessing. Taj Mahal already has white stones. Yes, it shines. You are guessing. And what Knowledge is can never be


guessed by mind. Because wherever Knowledge will go it will say to mind "Get out. Get out." And then mind will be afraid and will try to torture you from outside. But if you are really full and have faith in the Knowledge you have received you will not be tortured. Knowledge will keep it away from you. And Knowledge is such a thing that as soon as it comes to you it starts its action. Immediately. Everything has a speed and speed has a time but this Knowledge has such a speed it has got no speed. As soon as it drops into you it starts its action. Digging the purity out from deep inside you. Abolishing all that is impure in you. There is not another technique to use. This is the only way. Many saints have searched for other methods and applied other methods, trying to be pure from the outside. But they can't become pure. Because the mind says "Oh, that is beautiful, this picture is very beautiful", and thus you become impure. The idea of grabbing something comes to you and you can't stop it, can you? You can't stop your mind. Mind is always there before you; even before you see it the mind is there sprinkling it. Mind reaches that particular thing and calls "You, mister, see here!" Your mind becomes attracted. But once you're with this Knowledge you don't have mind any more. You are just pure. You are absolutely pure.

Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji in 1971 How can I receive this Knowledge?

It's very easy. Once you have understood the introduction to this Knowledge, you are ready to receive it. Ask and it shall be given to you, knock and it shall be opened.

May I have this Knowledge?

Yes, sure!

Can meditation also bring the Knowledge?

What is meditation? What is eating food? Meditation is like eating food. First of all you must have the food to be able to eat it, right? Imagining that you are eating will not bring food, will it? Same with meditation. If I tell you to meditate on or concentrate on a point in this room, first of all you look at this point and say "this point is more beautiful than that because it has got a pipe nearby." Then you see another point and say "That point is more beautiful because it has got a different colour to this." Then you might say "No, that point is more beautiful because it has got a rose nearby." So you start concentrating on that point. But then you see another point and think let's see that and say "Oh, this is golden with a white colour." Ultimately you will start concentrating. But first, always first, is to have that point. And that is Knowledge. If you want to drive you don't need the road first. You cannot drive a road. You need a car. Once you get the car there is no problem. The road will come.

Some people must be born with Knowledge?

Everybody has got Knowledge in him. Everybody is born with Knowledge. The children which are not born with Knowledge are dead. Everybody is born with Knowledge. But what happens? Years come and layers start building themselves up over that Knowledge. So now there is a thick layer and when you are again in search of that Knowledge you go to Guru and Guru takes a knife and cuts through. He performs the surgery. Then you can meditate.

In the Aquarian Gospel it mentions Lord Gabriel and Lord Michael. Who are these?

Well, I haven't read the Aquarian Gospel so I don't know.

You don't believe in space-crafts, is that right?

If they are there I would like to drive them. It would be very very, far out. But see, the man is everything. You should go and sit in a theatre. See a man who's dead, or a man coming with a pistol to kill a man. A certain man is waiting and a man


comes behind him and does like this; he'll be killed won't he? Or something comes like a bad thing, or a hand comes; he'll start escaping from it. But after it has finished all we see is a bare white screen. Nothing else. The car came, the man came with the pistol and killed him, the car came and took him away, and that happened and that happened and that happened. And where did it all go? Vanished! Just vanished! This is the mind. It brings space-crafts, it brings gods, it brings so many, so many things, then when it goes off there is nothing there. Can't see it. There's only one thing there and this is God. Generator, Operator, Director. And He is all powerful, all merciful. He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. That is more than enough. No space-crafts. Space-crafts won't help bring that peace within you.

Prem Rawat aka Guru Mharaj Ji in 1971 You are saying they are an illusion and I agree, just like my hand is an illusion. What I'm asking is what created this illusion. If it is not real then who is inside these spacecraft flying them?

I'll tell you. I've explained before about this. When man was created unfortunately a desire was created, right? And this desire used to go and hit boundaries of Knowledge, the boundaries of the primordial vibration, the boundaries of whatever you call it. But God has not allowed this desire to touch that purity, because the body is illusion and the product of the body – desire – is also illusion. And you know that when two things hit each other, a third thing also is created. So when the desire hit the boundary the thing that came out was illusion.

In other words, you are saying there are no different entities, no ether masters at different levels of consciousness. You are saying the highest manifestation of man was on the planet earth, right?

And all the illusion began. And this illusion put man in many areas, made him think in these different ways. But what was real, he missed it. All because the body was created, and that was illusion. It was not perfect.

Why is there a creation? Why is there suffering?

Sufferings come. We do what we do. If today I'm a man and I don't develop myself, suppose I'm just a labourer to serve another man. I have to work the whole night through, then the whole day. And again. Dig something. Whole night. Dig something. Whole day. Dig something. And when I get in I undress and I think my whole body is bleeding. I am an educated man, an engineer. I go to my office, sit there for six hours, or three hours, or four hours of whatever. Do my work. Write things down. See what is going on. Come back and dress. Whatever I was doing before, if I had progressed hard I wouldn't have been that labourer, I would have been that engineer. You can't reap mangoes out of thorns, can you? Can you sow thorns and reap mangoes? Whatever you sow, so shall you reap. If you sow good, if you do good, you shall reap good. If you do bad, you shall reap bad. Whatever bad a man did, he gains a lot of suffering out of it. And whatever good he did, he gains all that is good.

Does questioning also produce suffering?

If you can't understand me here, if you can't understand the answer, it creates terrible suffering in your mind. You cannot sleep at night because of the illusive question.

The Book of Revelation in the Bible talks about the chosen people, 144,000 people, and it also mentions the New Jerusalem. Now I wondered if you could first explain what it means by the chosen people and then …

If you can just have patience you will be able to observe those 144,000 people and the New Jerusalem that is going to come.

What is the New Jerusalem?

Just observe. It is going to come. It is not yet. I know that. I have read the Bible and perhaps my


Prem Rawat aka Guru Mahraj Ji in 1971

understanding is an error and if it is I was wondering if you could relieve this for me. Could you shed some light on it?

The new Jerusalem that is going to come is going to be the Kingdom of Heaven and those 144,000 devotees who are chosen are going to be the most humble servants of God.

Chosen by whom?

The same person for whom they are doing their service. But since this will be a time when everybody will be His son and He will be His father, there will be more than 144,000 even.

I know it is only a symbolic figure. What is going to be the distinguishing factor? Those that have received the Knowledge and those that have not? Is that it?

That will surely happen, that will surely happen. The bombs are going to explode and some people are going to be the victims of these bombs. They are those people who are ignorant of this Knowledge.

In other words, this is a symbolic figure-head of this Knowledge that you are showing?

Kingdom of Heaven. This is a symbolic expression for the Kingdom of Heaven. There are many, many, many like this in the Bible and really many in our scripture also, and in other scriptures also. It is going to be really wonderful.

Can we save our parents?

Sure. Who brought parents in the world?

They are our parents.

They are our parents, I know that. Who has brought them this world? There is one parent and He is the parent of everybody. He supports everybody. If someone is wrong he'll kick him, if someone is good He will raise him up. He is a transformer. Excess current is resisted, good current is given out. People are resisting my Knowledge, I am trying very hard. I am having to use both my legs today because nobody is co-operating with me. But when the world starts co-operating with me I will be able to give this Knowledge to the whole world in five seconds. I give you a challenge on this. Once this world starts co-operating with me, in five seconds the whole world will be divine. The one flag of true knowledge. Not American, Canadian, and Great Britain, South African and that: there will be only the one flag of True Name. Under


it the whole world will be united, but who are cooperating?

How is it possible in five seconds?

Not on the television. On the television there is no fun. There is no point in television. It must be given real to real. Hand to hand. Five seconds.

How can we co-operate more?

By service. There was a great leader in India and he was also a guru and he used to say to people, you give me your love and I will give you peace. And that is the same thing I challenge you. I hope somebody will pick it up.

Guru Maharaj Ji, could you explain service?

If you become a servant and start doing service, you will realize what it is more than if I had explained it to you. Because I was only fortunate enough to do service for a very short time and thus I feel that I was unfortunate in that thing. I had very little time to do service, very little time, I only got about a year or two to do service, and this is not enough time. It is only a quarter of a second. And what is a quarter of a second? A quarter of a second is more than enough, but it was not even a quarter of a second. Service is so important. Service is that which makes you shine like a servant. Only service. It makes you shine like a servant. Don't think that servant is the lowerthing. Servant is very high thing. When Jesus Christ went to be baptised by John, John was the service of baptism. Christ goes there and John says "Yes, you are going to baptise me or will I baptise you?" And Jesus said, "No, no. You baptise me", and John again said "Yes, are you going to baptise me or am I going to baptise you?" So service is such a high thing that Lord of the Universe Ram had to come upon the order of a little monkey. The Lord of Universe Krishna had to be a charioteer for an ordinary man like Arjuna. So what was that that made it so? Only service. And service to Guru is service to all humanity. All humanity takes privilege out of it. They really are privileged.

There were many people who really wanted to do service and they were with Maharaj Ji, my father, and only thus was He able to do what you say. When He first left Lahore – because then Pakistan, West Pakistan and India were not separated – there were only two people with Him and He used to go and sleep on the railway station or in inns where there was only one room, and used to eat grams and used to drink water. But today, because these two people with Guru Maharaj Ji were doing service, the whole world is gaining. Then it was only India and Bihar, Bihar Estate, but today in that same Bihar where Maharaj Ji used to go and stay in the dirty inns because nobody used to clean them (they were times when everybody was so busy in what was going on there nobody used to clean those inns), today by the help of those two there stands a beautiful ashram there, an ashram much more beautiful than any of the palaces. About one million people have received Knowledge under the shadow of that huge tree that stands by it. Only by the service of those two people.

And there are lazy servants here also. They take Knowledge but don't want to do service. And so whatever they are doing, they want to throw out the illusion that they have in their mind, they want to throw it out but they haven't unwound the elastic. Means they don't want to do service, and thus illusion again comes back into them. So service is a most, most, most beautiful and recommended thing. Especially the servant. And how do we become servant? Servant is a mark of humbleness which any man can possess. But how can you be servant? By service. Once you do service, you become servant. And thus you become humble, and the humbleness you possess now is of spirituality. No more illusion.

And you are serving whom? Not a man. Not an ordinary man. Whom? Who has created the the whole universe, done everything? You are going to do service for Him and is there any wrong to do service for Him. He has done so much service for you. He has even created you. He has made you survive in your mother's stomach. He has done such a great lot of service for you, can't you even do a little bit of service for Him?

Guru Maharaj Ji, can I have your Grace to help me with my meditation and help me to do better service?

Yes. But there is a point when a man forgets what to do. If I sit in this car will it take me where I like? No. I will have to drive it. People ask for grace and sit and think that grace is like an aeroplane or a suitcase that will come to them and they will open it and the grace will flow out and take away their troubles. Grace is not like that. First you have to push yourself and then the grace will push you. Grace can only come when you are working, when you are active. So don't stop doing meditation. Go ahead and grace will follow you. And wherever there is cause for you to fall grace will prevent you from falling. That's all.