Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971


Excerpts from Guru Maharaj Ji's Question and Answer Session,
Wall Street, Boulder, Colorado, August 18, 1971, Evening

What is the difference between a Satguru and an Avatar?

Same. What is the difference between H2O and water? Some people say "Mercy," "Lord of Mercy." Some only say "Lord," some say "God," some say "Lord Christ." Same thing.

What happens to a person when they die?

When the man dies, his soul leaves the body and goes. If he has done some good actions, it will be sent to what we call heaven, and after the fruit or result of our actions is finished, it will again come back in this world. And if we haven't done any good, then it will go into hell, where there are eighty-four hundred thousand forms of suffering, where man goes and suffers. And if he has received this Knowledge, then he will go and mix with perfection, and be perfect.

Once he has received this Knowledge, does he come back in physical form? Or can he stay a spiritual being forever?

You see, when he dies, and he has got this Knowledge, if he has been a perfect devotee like Hanuman was - you know who was Hanuman? You know Ram? You don't know Ram! All right. Ram was one incarnation which came in this Earth in India. And with Him there was a disciple; his name was Hanuman. Once Lord asked him - because he was a perfect devotee of His, so He asked him that, "Hanuman, what do you want: mukti - liberation - or do you want devotion?"

In liberation a drop of water goes and mixes with water and nothing is left - no individuality is left. You can't come back again. Mixed is mixed. And other is devotion, when a man comes in this human frame, having no purpose except to serve his Lord. That is called devotion, and he is a perfect devotee, as Arjuna came, Hanuman came, and we can see no difference in them. They also begged for that Knowledge to Lord, and they have served Him perfectly. So he can come - but if he is a perfect devotee, God will ask him, "What do you want, liberation or devotion?"

In such a situation, if there is indecision, can you just leave it to the Supreme Being to decide for you?

He asks you, just to test you, "What do you want?" Because fortunate are those who always receive the devotion and service of Lord. Because when I am liberated, I cannot come back again and see how Lord is carrying on. It is of fantastic interest to see how Lord carries on: How does He make His path in these woods? And only a disciple who comes with Him can see this. So He just asks if you want liberation. That means that you don't want to serve Him anymore. Because after liberation you can't serve Him. But when you ask for devotion, He gives you devotion, and you come again and again, but without sufferings and without anything. You come and just - it is a sort of liberation from this Earth, actually. But he will come just to serve Lord, and nothing else.

What about purpose in relationship to individual? Like for myself, what would be my purpose?

There is some purpose which is not only yours individually, but which is universal. It is a universal purpose that God gives every man. Some are able to know that, and some aren't. The people who really want to seek that Truth are able to realize the purpose why they have come into this world. And who are not interested in these things, they can't. They just can't. And so there are those people just roaming about without an aim.

Sometimes tourists come in India, and just spread whole over mountains, just roam about and nothing else - roam, laugh, sing, shout, without any purpose. So this is what is happening in this world. Somebody is going to moon, somebody is going from there to there, from there to there, from there to there, without any purpose, without any cause. They can't understand, because they are so busy solving their mind's desire that they haven't got time to think over this matter: why they have come into this world? But if you have come to this point, to this state, where you can question yourself, "why have I come into this world?" then you should go beyond it and know why you have come actually. Receive that Truth, and know who you are and what your purpose is. First know who you are, and then you will know what your purpose is in this life.

What holds our soul to our body?

The Grace. The Grace is keeping both united. As they both separate, the Grace goes away. First Grace goes away, and they both are separated.

You have said that without the Satguru, this plane of existence would disintegrate.

Yes, because there will be so much evil, and there will be nobody to check it. People will be killing themselves, and one kills one; nobody will be left. World will collapse. This whole creation is made for people, and when there is no man, why will this exist?

Without the Satguru, this universe will destroy itself, then?

Yes, because now there is a man to check people: "Don't do that!" But when there will be no man to check them, then what will happen? There is a human nature to fight with other men.

Is there always the same amount of Grace on this planet, or does it go up and down?

It never decreases; it sometimes increases.

As a regular pattern?

When it starts increasing, then it increases and increases and increases, till that Grace makes a way for liberation of soul. But it cannot decrease, you see.

Guru Ji, do you feel there is going to be a nuclear war, where they're going to use atomic weapons on each other?

I don't know about that, but I know about one thing: that there is going to be a kingdom of heaven into this Earth. A kingdom of heaven into this Earth! On this Earth! And who will be the natives of that, they all will be liberated. Who will be present in that kingdom, they all will be liberated.


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971

Edgar Cayce said the same thing years ago.

And same thing Surdas said, very many scriptures have said: That there will be great struggle; the people who are crazy will die, you see, and people who are intelligent enough to think about God will be left. And then God will rule over them.

He says that this will happen in our lifetime.

Yes! Oh well, it is not for sure. Maybe you will go down and you will die. This frame has got no permanent guarantee for so many years.

Can you tell us about compassion, and how to develop a technique for realizing compassion all the time?

You see, first you receive the technique. Then talk about it. You want to drive a car very eagerly; first have a car. Then drive it. Then that eagerness will be satisfied. That is a proper way to satisfy that eagerness. You want to develop techniques; first know those techniques. Then you will develop them.

Can we understand any of the answers you give us before we know the Knowledge?

Some you can and some you can't.

What is the best thing we can do as individuals after we've received Knowledge, to help in the struggle between good and evil, as servants of the essential good?

You see, if we become the servants of God, then evil can't come towards us. If we are. And if we aren't, always evil is after us. Always!

But what is the best way we can serve? In this civilization at this time?

You call this civilization? In this Kaliyuga, people are said to be the most fortunate people, most fortunate. Because it won't take a long time to receive them for this Knowledge. That is clearly written. "This world is enough for those people, the people of Kaliyuga." Otherwise, in olden days, people used to go to the ashrams, and just serve the Master for a year, two years, three years, and four years, and then maybe Master is pleased or not. And then He used to reveal that technique. But now, you can serve with many ways. Sitting in your home, you can serve. Sitting in your home you can serve! You see, you can give First you receive this technique, then I will tell you how to serve, okay?

Has the Father appeared as often as His sons?

Same way. You see, it is written in Bible that Lord - "I will come from heaven," right? "I will cross the clouds and come." It is written, isn't it? And then it is written, "There will be a great war, famine and thunders and so many things, and there, after that, there will be My kingdom." Am I right?

If everybody knows that, "He is Lord," why will people fight? If I have seen that He is Lord, He has come from Earth, and His command is not to fight, then why will people fight?

This is heaven (tapping head), and the Lord will appear from here! just look into you. He says in Aquarian Gospel, "Wait and look into you. You will see a Light which is more than a


noonday sun." That is the real form of Guru. That is the real form of Guru. That is the real form of Guru, real form of Christ. This is heaven, and there are clouds of devils in us. He will cross all those, and come amongst us. But few people, or not so many people will be able enough to know that Knowledge, to know that technique. That's why there will be a fight. In my opinion, this is heaven (head), and the Lord will appear from here.

Is this the destiny of all beings, whether they are good or bad, to someday be consciously reunited with God?

You see, you know what is "fortune?" And you know what is "try?" People who have got fortune and try surely will reach God. People who don't, they don't reach.

Does that mean never?

Don't think about fate. People just have to try. If people don't try, they can't reach God. Maybe he is a learned man, or not. Krishna says, "Read as many Vedas as you can, do as many things as you can." He says, "Oh Arjuna, by keeping fast, by going to sacred places, by going to Ganges, by going to so many places, by doing havan (fire-sacrifice), by reading books, you cannot reach me because I am away from there. So you cannot reach me by all those things. How can you reach me? When you go to a true Satguru." How will we reach a true Sarguru? When we try to reach. So if we try, we can surely reach Him. But if you don't try, you can't reach.

Is it the fate of every creature after many lifetimes to reach union with God?

I said: Don't think about fate, and just rely on try.

Could you explain what you meant by the Kaliyuga?

Kal is tomorrow, and yug means age. The age of "tomorrow."

Is that the same thing as the Aquarian Age that is coming up?

No. Aquarian Age is very holy, most holy. This is not. Now it is in middle of Kaliyuga - most of Kaliyuga has passed, some is left, and people are trying to go into the border of Aquarian Age. I mean the border: So many things will happen. Small, small fights have been started. East Pakistan and West Pakistan, America and Vietnam; and something happens. India fights, West Pakistan fights with India, and China fights with India, and: Third World War! Because there are so many countries who really want to help India, and they will just get on China, and (snaps fingers twice). It will give you more nuclear bombs, and make more and more nuclear bombs, and then break them and die. And then . .

When one receives Knowledge, does he know all secrets?

Knowledge is a thing in which all the secrets of the world are written. So when he receives that, he just knows what is the secret. Because this is a most secret thing.

When a soul reincarnates, is it the same soul from previous lives, or something else?

You see, whatever I have said about it, this is not my opinion. This is not what I have said from my side - this is written in holy scriptures. Something about eighty-four hundred thousand forms is written in Bible maybe, or some book.

What is the purpose of body?

First you know what is body, then you will know the purpose of body. You know what is body? You know what you are?

Does it matter?

Oh yes, it does. A great lot! First you know whether you are driving a four-wheel drive, a car or a scooter. If you just take a steering wheel to drive a scooter, you can't drive it.

Is the purpose to enjoy what is here?

No, no, no; that you are saying. People think that their aim in this life is "eat, drink and be merry" - that's all. But it is not. Have you seen a toy train?


So what is the fun in that toy train? When it goes and comes back again, near the beginning. That is the fun. So when this soul again has a union with God, that is the fun of this life. It was separated, and then when it comes back again, that is the fun. When you leave your house, you leave your house to come back again. That is why you come back again to your house.

So it is to have a better realization in order to go back again?

Yes! Again to have a permanent union with God. Steam - see how it evaporates! It goes into clouds and goes into mountains, falls there, and until it is again in sea it is not satisfied. That is the fun.

Is everyone ready for your Knowledge?

Well, people are getting ready. They aren't really yet, because there are too many doubts in their minds. Till doubts are gone, no Knowledge.

After this planet, after you've gone back to God, are there other planets you experience then?

When you die, when you leave this planet, you leave all the mediums of senses and feelings. You leave your hand, you leave your mind, you leave everything. Just the soul goes, and soul can't feel anything.

Soul doesn't go. The soul just merges …

Soul leaves the body. Soul leaves the body, and soul hasn't got things to say: "Yes, this is that planet and this is that planet and this is that planet."

Just feeling that bliss all the time, right?

Well, soul does, but you should also! When soul leaves this body, it straightaway goes to that Judge. The Judge has got a book, a recorder, a computer recorder on everybody's head.

So I as an individual will be conscious of my bliss, without a body? Once my soul has returned to God?

What is you? What is you? What is Y-O-U? And know that, whether it will go with you or will remain here. Know that also. "You" is for body. "You" is a pronoun. And what is the definition of pronoun? A word which is used instead of a noun is called a pronoun. "You" is a pronoun. "He" is a pronoun. "It" is a pronoun. These are all pronouns, and "you" is a pronoun which is not a noun. So it will be left here. And that is noun.

Would the soul be able to manifest on a different level besides Earth level?

See, soul is a part of God and is always inspired by God what to do. Soul is not a different thing. It is just like God, but is just a part of God.


I have a desire for Knowledge, but my mind seems to create doubt and the doubt seems to create fear, and the fear makes me fear that I won't receive Knowledge.

Can you get out of doubts? Can you get rid of doubts?

I can work on it.

Okay, try! The best and the easiest method that you can apply to get off with your doubts is to listen to satsang. And ask questions. Ask what doubts you have. Be careful and pay attention to what I have to say, because I won't be staying here for too long.

What is me? 'What is "I"?

"I" is ego, is a desire. "I am - desire that I am - it is ego. It is a pride thing: "I am," "mine," pronoun "he." Existence of something which is false.

Because we should know that only one thing exists in this world. And when we put "I," and "he," then we are proving the existence of ourselves and that person and second person and third person. Right? While we should only say that one thing exists. So what is "I" is not Truth. Soul is Truth. And soul has got no name. Soul cannot say "I."

Because dry cells can't glow. Cells can't do any function. They can give something to function on. Soul is making us alive to function on. Soul is not functioning, right? It is a medium, and inspirations are coming through God and they are being passed along. But it is only the power, not to control anything, but only to keep us alive.

And the mind is to keep us. But when we replace a good mind - because these minds, see, have become very old. Since we were in this life these minds are with us. They have become very old, and what do we do for old cars? We throw them into dump. So we have to throw this mind into a dump. This can't function anymore. How it is functioning is not correct. It can deceive you at any time. You are going, you are very confident; and then the car comes in a jungle and two tires burst out, or supposedly engine bursts, or distributors leave current, or something like that happens. So get rid of this mind, because it is very old. What it is doing is foolish because it is very old. It has become very, very old. Have new minds. Replace them.

And that is why many people have defined Guru, Satguru, as a shopkeeper, as a mechanic, as a surgeon, as a doctor, so many things. It is because he is a mechanic. He will just replace. Because the main thing in the car is carburetor. Main thing is carburetor, and if carburetor, or condensor and distributor, or distributor itself goes wrong - because both things are giving something to engine to function, and both things are very essential. Thinking power is distributor and mind is our carburetor. We are just passing around many, many sorts of things. But that has become very old.

You know what are jets in a carburetor? When the car becomes too old or the jets become too old, they become very thick, hmmm? And when you just start your car, before you start your car, the petrol comes from the fuel pump and your car is overfilled, and then it takes a very long time to start and your car uses much of your petrol. This is what is happening. So much energy we are wasting, because our mind needs and needs and needs and needs and needs. Our energy is our petrol and it is being wasted.

So control those jets. Jets are the main thing in carburetor.

How does sex relate to your belief?

You see, I am not concerned with any external things. If you want to ask me an internal thing, then ask me now. If you are concerned with Knowledge, ask me. If you are concerned with anything else outside, please don't ask me. I'm sorry, 1 can't give that answer. You want to ask something of Knowledge? Do you have any question about Knowledge?

I was just wondering how … never mind.

Yes. Ask about Knowledge, if you can. That's all. I have come here just for that purpose. Otherwise there are many people in India to argue with me. I have just come here to put my proper time to you people, because people in West have been away from Knowledge so many years. They were wanting something, something, something. They wanted money and the money came to them; then they were tired of that.

Well, what I am wondering is whether sex is like a worldly thing or whether it is something more, in your beliefs?

Sex is a completely worldly thing.

If the soul and the Grace from God maintains the human body, what maintains a tree or a flower?

The same thing.

A soul?

Soul, but that is more manifested in insects than in plants. It is more manifested in birds than in insects. It is more manifested in animals than in birds, and it is the highest manifestation - or maybe it is half-manifestation in human beings. It is more and more manifested in human beings.

Do any souls that are in human form fall to a lower form?

Yes, many. Many, many.

Is hell a lower form?

Oh, hell is a lower form! Everybody knows that. Lowest form is hell. Where God is away, there is hell. Where God is, it is heaven. I can make my house as a restaurant, as a guest room. and as my home, can't I? If I just place a few tables and chairs, and I invite people to a restaurant, it will become a restaurant. Make it a home, it will become a home. Right?

So it is on man. If he wants to get up, it will become heaven. Or else he will go to more and more lower form until he just reaches to the depths, reaches the lowest. And if he tries, he can reach to the highest. He can't manifest himself as in God, but he can reach to quite a high point.

As a punishment for a bad life, could your soul find itself, say, in a tree?

You haven't realized your souls. How can you see? Why are you thinking about your souls? First realize what is soul.

How does the soul speak to the personality?

I told you that soul cannot speak. Soul is a power. Dry cell is a power. Dry cell does not light. So soul is inspiration of living. When it goes away, we are dead.

I don't desire Knowledge now. Does that mean that I might be evil?


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971

You actually desire Knowledge. Whoever comes here, he comes here to desire Knowledge. He wants Knowledge. That is why he comes here.

I mean, I feel like I'm not ready.

Oh well! You are not ready. I will make you ready, if you are not.

Even if I don't feel like I have the desire right now?

Ask what doubts you have! I will remove them. That is why I am sitting here. If it gets too late, then you can ask me tomorrow. I have not come here, you see, to see the beautiful sceneries of Boulder or something like that. I have come here for some purpose, to remove your doubts and give you that Knowledge. But I can only remove the sensible doubts, sensible questions - not the foolish ones.

People sometimes hear voices that direct them. How does one know where they come from?

Don't become a strainer. Because what does a strainer do? It takes away the leaves that have been soaked and gets rid of water. Become that strainer which is used for taking out wheat in India. You know that strainer? What does it do? It cleans all the bad things and only attains what is good. It gets the wheat and leaves what is hay. Become like that.

Always God has given you a memory. God has given you this mind so that you can think very accurately from where this voice is coming.

"Kill him, he is a devil." Consciousness says, "No, don't follow it." And what is Supreme, consciousness will say, "Just follow it." God has given you such a great thing: consciousness. That is why you are more fortunate than a dog. Dog cannot see whether This is my oldest friend,'' or something like that. What it does: It goes and bites. That is all it can do. But you have got consciousness in you. You can think about it: ''What is it?" You can much more think about it, from where the voice is coming, because in you there is a medium, there is a computer, which tells you which is consciousness. It tells you from where the voice is coming. From devil or from God. But some people are even too lazy to think about that computer.

Why does God, Who is in everything, have to create creation?

Very nice. Very nice question! The officers have left their pens and files, and have just started thinking why their building was made. All right, this creation has been made for you, that is why you are living in this. This whole creation has been made for YOU/

Is that so we can have consciousness?

Yes. Union with God. One writer has said that, "Oh God, you have done a very strange thing. It is fantastic what you have done. Because a thought came in your mind, and from an idea you made it real; from a thought you made it real. Just an idea came, and you made the whole creation." Which is beautiful. Which is really far out. So this was made fur you. But you don't know, because you don't know yourselves. You cannot know why this creation was made. That is why you don't know who made it and why was this creation made. Because you don't know yourselves.

Why do we have doubts?


I don't know. I don't have doubts, so I can't give my end of it. Well, what should I say, because I don't know.

If the soul degenerates to hell, and then decides that it wants to try to reach God, can it?

Thinking power by which you decide will be left here only, so you can't make decisions there.

Do you experience pain at all yourself?

Pain? Go and have a cholera injection and you will feel pain after two hours. Cholera and typhoid injections - you just have them, and you will feel pain after two hours. That is pain. Suffering. Pain is put there for suffering.

Do you experience it yourself?

Because I am not "you" or I am not "I," then I cannot. That is called dedication. That is why saints have said, "Dedicate yourselves to Lord." He is a blotting paper. He is an ocean. How much you give - not enough. How much you give - not enough. So dedicate your life. No pains to you then. Always victory. No errors then. You will be perfect, because you have dedicated your life. That is why dedication is so important.

Even if I feel pain, then I will welcome that. Because that is coming towards me, not for me, but my Lord. Because I have dedicated my life to my Lord. Slave is never responsible for himself. The owners are responsible. So slaves are not responsible for themselves, because they are slaves. Dedication is just by itself natural. And that slavery is external. But when I have dedicated my life, then if pain even comes to me, what will it do to me?

When I meet with evil persons who have nothing but hostility towards me, I personally always react, and all my wanting to transcend it is always wiped out by my desire to survive this threat. Is that a sin?

You see, what you have said is 100% correct. What you are saying is 100% correct. Because if he does two or three murders then he will become an outlaw, and he will go and murder some more people!

But this was a case, even: All the people were on one side and a girl was on other side, standing with her head down. And everybody had stones in their hands, and they wanted to just stone that poor girl. Jesus was just passing there. Jesus asked, "Why? What is happening? That girl - that poor thing is just standing there, and you are all standing at one side. What is the matter?"

People said, "This is a girl who has to be taken out of the society. She is not fit for society. And we want to kill her."

So Jesus said, "She has done a mistake?" And people said, "Yes."

"And you want to kill her by throwing stones?" People said, "Yes."

So Jesus said, "I allow you to throw stones on this girl by all means, but that person will throw the stone who has never committed a mistake in his life." And when they felt that, they left their stones.

When an evil person comes to you, just pray God that, "Please God, give him something good." And God will hear. Because just that is required to draw His attention. And that's all. Because He cannot just look towards evil. And if we are amongst them, and if we just attract God that "Please, God, help him; he has got evil things," God will help.

Because this is my own idea. This is my own personal thing. Many people in India criticize me like anything. See? What I do is just pray for them that, "Please God, give them something nice, so that they can have something nice in their lives." And God gives them. I am really satisfied to see that.

In a situation like this, there is a time when I have to decide, either I am going to get killed, or I am going to either run away or kill the other person. That has happened to me twice, and I have not been able to live with the violence it produced in me.

Only twice with you, and seventeen times with me! When we enter Dehra Dun where I am staying, there is a great deal of jungle, and they stop the car. "Who is Balyogeshwar? Bring him out! Where is Balyogeshwar - bring him out!"

I said, "Yes, I am Balyogeshwar - anything to do?" And they just look on me and they keep shut. Because they are grown-up persons and I am a small child challenging them. So they just feel shame on themselves and they just leave, they go away. Seventeen times this happened with me - one, two and three and … seventeen! And terribly! But I am always saved. That is why He is called Savior. That is why all the saints have called Him: "He is Savior."

So the next time it happens, the chances are I won't get wiped out if my trust is strong enough?

It should be, yeah. Because those persons were in a terrible condition just to kill me. Because they were standing for so long. Maybe they were standing straight from morning just to kill me, murder me! And so when I was not coming, they were becoming more and more furious.

Once somebody was after me, and the angrier I got the worse they got.

Yes, yes, that is why God comes in this Earth - to destroy those people. He becomes Himself a medium of destruction, and He destroys those people. Like Guru Govind Singh did. Guru Govind Singh, the last Guru of the series of Guru Nanak, Sikhism.

Is God a punishing God?

Both - punishing, saving, and protecting, and Father - everything. Father does give punishment - a very harsh punishment, doesn't he? "Stand out with your hands up, like this!" Our father - when we do wrong, he gives us punishment. "Stand up, for hours, hands up!" And we stand. Why? And then we say, "I am not going to do that thing again in my life!"

When we just have a bath in hot water and come out, we catch cold, we have fever, lie there in bed. And what is the punishment? You can't move. Worse than a jail. In a jail you can move in a room. But there you can't move.

Can God be a punishing God and be all-merciful at the same time?

Yes! He is merciful. If you have felt "Yes," then He is merciful. If you haven't felt, then He is very harsh, very harsh!

Now … how many people want Knowledge? So you will be given a time. Okay?


Prem Rawat (Maharaji) When He Was Guru Maharaj Ji, The Lord Of The Universe, 1971