THE FRANKFURT CONFERENCE

( … continued from page 9)

What's happening in the underneath of the world, Australia?

DEREK HARPER: I think everything's very good there at the moment. The changes that have taken place with reducing the structure of the mission, I think people are enjoying that; and a lot more people are being involved who didn't have that opportunity before, and I think everyone seems to be feeling that there is real progress and that the Mission is really representative of the feelings of the premies that are there.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What is your prachar growth?

DEREK: Well, I think probably now we'd have maybe 120 aspirants throughout Australia who have been

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waiting since Ira Woods left, which was about March, and I think the majority of those people are really wanting Knowledge. They have been through all the programmes that the Mission set up originally and now they're very much in the community.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Are there still ashrams in Australia?

DEREK: Well, 3 months ago when I was communicating with Denver to find out what the situation was with ashrams, I got the impression that you were intending to set up a new type of ashram and the other situation was proving to be sort of inadequate. Some of the premies weren't taking real advantage of the ashram, and so what I thought would be best to do was just to stop the situation in the ashram and give those people who wanted to go back into the ashram a chance to do that. But I thought that if you just allowed the ashram situation to continue, many premies just didn't seem to be progressing in that circumstance. And I thought that if you just like allowed it to go on, then they'd just stay there simply because they didn't really feel strong enough in a sense to just move out and progress in another way. And so the situation is now that those people that were in the ashram the majority of them are still living in the houses that were like the ashram and they're still living pretty much to an ashram style of living. You know, they're not confused in any way; the majority of the people who were in the ashram think there's been a real benefit in being able to get out and about and be a little bit more responsible for their own lives, in a sense, and take more of the onus on themselves. And then I guess if we started up the ashram again under the terms of what's been outlined I think maybe just at rough guess about 60 people throughout Australia would want to get back into the ashram again. But mainly those people are aspirants and people who have only just received Knowledge who would like to take the opportunity of living in one.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: See under the new structure of the ashram if people would like to stay there for a lifetime then people will be able to stay there a lifetime. And of course, when we go into the ashram there's a lot that can be explained. The structure is really beautiful. I personally feel it's really nice; it's very strong, it's very open and very adaptable to the situation. I mean, you can look at the ashram structure presently and it's not doing people very much good. It's just like if a person is in the ashram he has to pretty much do himself his good, you know; he has to really be sort of isolated from all the craziness there is in the ashram that other people created, that other people give out. And he has to pretty much on his own just use the advantage of being in that environment. But this new structure I think is much more beneficial; it's much more refined and I think as soon as we can get our heads together about it and start it I think a lot of premies are going to be benefited by it.

How's France?

DIMITRI: As everywhere, I guess. We've been moving through different phases and since your coming in June and there's been like one phase where every-body's tried to question everything and another phase where everybody went into holidays, and another phase where everybody came back and started to feel that they needed some satsang - you know, real satsang which wasn't happening any more.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: You said that people started to question a lot?

DIMITRI: Yes.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Question what?

DIMITRI: Well, question everything. You know, like the structure, the organisation, the administration.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Why do you think that happened?

DIMITRI: Why? Well I guess because, till the festival, everything was coming from one direction and everybody was doing what they were told; and also it was true on the level of Knowledge itself that people were doing meditation and doing satsang and service. Because you were saying to do so, but not really because they were feeling that they should do it because it was really a need, a personal need for them. And it was the same thing on the external level. They were doing everything that maybe the national headquarters were telling them to do. Like beautiful programmes and things like this. Or on a local level too. But you know they weren't very satisfied with that, and at one point they felt the dullness of what was happening. And in fact the problem was finding themselves. Because they weren't really participating enough, putting enough energy into what was going on; they were just awaiting something from somebody else, from handful of premies or something like this. But I guess by now the people have realised more and more that they should maybe put more energy for themselves into what is going on in the mission, and maybe try to help.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: How about satsang, service and meditation though?

DIMITRI: Well, during the holidays, it's very funny. France is one of the rare countries where you have this month where everybody goes on the beach and that's the same thing more or less with the premies. They go on vacation, but as you say, once, don't give a vacation to their mind. So they came back and meditation had gone down; satsang they had forgotten about it during their holidays, and when they came back the vibe was very very low; the satsang wasn't there.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, sand all over the ashram, huh? (Laughter).

DIMITRI: And then slowly, slowly it started to go up and up. The satsang became a little more satsang; people started to meditate.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: See, that's the problem, you know. It's really interesting, because all of a sudden people start to - it's the way you look at it; there's 2 sides of looking at it. And you look at it and see people getting disinterested in what you call satsang; and you know people just don't

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participate very much any more and get into this and that.

But if you look at it from the other side, it's because that's really not satsang - that's why they're losing interest in it. It's a lot of chit chat, it's a lot of community talk and a lot of other kinds of junk; And it's not satsang, not about the true experience of Knowledge - more of a true experience of how they had their accident and the guy let them go, didn't take the licence number down or anything. That's the kind of satsang people have a lot of times, you know.

And it's very easy to get caught up in it and people get really disinterested; and so maybe if there is the opportunity of real satsang provided, they also miss out on that. That's really interesting because that's the way a lot of people get disinterested in satsang. How about service and meditation?

DIMITRI: Well, meditation, as I said, was very low, and it's been something very important only for a few, well, not so many premies. When you really look at it you find that in the communities there's only a very small group of premies who really give importance to the practice of Knowledge really. And these premies have come with a real determination and a new sincerity not based upon "I must say what he says," but based upon the fact that they are really understanding that they need it in their life and do it.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, that sounds like a little child. Mamma says, "Do this" and he won't do it and he goes out and he finds out that that is exactly what he is supposed to do and gets hurt. (Laughter).

DIMITRI: Well in considering service I should say that there's quite a lot of confusion among the premies with service, in the minds of the people.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What is your personal … Where are you at? (Laughter).

DIMITRI: Well personally, I do feel that service is mainly helping in supporting your Mission. Maybe not Divine Light Mission but your Mission in this world in whatever form it might take, you know; it can take any form in any way. Because at the moment we are not kind of God-realised, you know. We can do anything. But, more or less, it's really supporting that Mission and trying to propagate the message throughout the world, and helping you in getting something together so we can give the people the message.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: How about meditation?

DIMITRI: My personal view?

GURU MAHARAJ JI: No, not 'view'. (Laughter).

DIMITRI: Well, where am I at? Mm?

GURU MAHARAJ JI: You know what I mean, how much meditation you do.

DIMITRI: Well, I should say that really I'm not doing more than maybe maximum one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. Lately I haven't been able - maybe on Sunday once or twice I've gone to maybe three hours or something like this - but I haven't been able to do more than that, and sometimes even less.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: I see. And what is the experience? (Laughter).

DIMITRI: Well, frankly, I have a hard time in trying to really concentrate and give the meditation some quality because for me it's not so much a problem of the quantity but more of quality. And I must say it's not that good.
(Roars of laughter).

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Don't bother about these guys, they are next.
(More laughter).
When you go out, do you give satsang a lot?

DIMITRI: Well, when I tour I do give a lot of satsang. I see people in a group and individuals and I give quite a lot of satsang.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What kind of satsang do you give?

DIMITRI: Well, I try to give inspiring satsang.

GURU MAHARAJ Jl: Like what?

DIMITRI: Well, I dunno; it depends on what I feel is the need of the place that I go, on the individual I'm faced with. It depends.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Say, for instance, you go to the er, the Riviera, the French Riviera (laughing) you know the community is very down; they don't do much meditation. They're lying on the beach. What kind of satsang would you use there?

DIMITRI: First of all I wouldn't just kind of go and give satsang. I would try to first listen to the people - what they got in their guts and then from

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that give myself an idea of the situation and then give satsang.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: But I mean what would you tell them?
(Laughter).

DIMITRI: Well, I'd try to give the people well, like, er, it might not happen; it hasn't happened on the Riviera yet.
(Laughter).

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's where you were for the last 6 months?
(Lots of laughter)

DIMITRI: My most recent experience of satsang took place in Paris; I was there and I was sitting in the satsang hall and there was some satsang. And some people came and gave so-called satsang which wasn't really satsang. And then I came on stage and made some announcement. And then I went back and I wasn't really satisfied with the way the people received the thing you know - everybody taking easy and so on; and somebody else gave satsang and so I said, OK I must talk to these people, and I gave this satsang just like the basic, what we are there for, what are we trying to realise in this life?

I do think that this is the kind of satsang that we have to give, because people - everybody, in fact - has the tendency to forget what is the exact aim of our life and what we are here for, and to start to go into different things and whatever it is. And so we have to come backalways and … well, you know, it's basic satsang in fact.

GURU MAHARAJ JI; Yeah, what I wanted to to identify was the difference between chit chat and satsang. I think you did a pretty good job of it. You see, we ourselves sometimes get caught up in chitchat rather than satsang.

And when we do that, people are really influenced because it's like, to me, if a person can't give satsang, he shouldn't give satsang. It's better to have one person giving satsang. It's not like all these 50 premies come and you have to have satsang and you have to have seven speakers speak and you have to have this whole show put on. It's better that that doesn't happen; that there is some real satsang; that there's some beautiful satsang.

And if you have extra time just sit down and try to do some meditation. Instead of just passing the time with a lot of chit chat going on - that is not such a good idea. And that is why communities feel that their basic food is being taken away from them - because that is their basic food, satsang, service and meditation. And for that, service and meditation - well meditation they have to look at themselves, because that's where that comes from. But for service and satsang, they have to look to the organisation, because that is what the organisation has to provide them - service, the opportunity to do service and the opportunity to do and to have satsang - this is what this organisation has to provide.

   How about Italy?

BRUNO: We were going through a thing similar to the other countries. And then all the premies they want to do, everybody wants to do whatever they like, you know, and so the communities are going through a lot of confusion and then all the communities, they try to make an election for community co-ordinator. So the satsang of the communities is quite boring. That's all.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's all? (Laughter). That'll be fantastic if they have an election between you and Giorgio and Valerio and Alvaro, and Bruno says, " If you make me director, I'll take you to the French Riviera. Mission pays for all your tickets? (Laughter).

BRUNO: Well then, all the premies are really becoming, some communities, they are really together - Venice, Bologna, Roma and the only one that is confused is Milano.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's where the National Headquarters is. (Laughter). And are the premies realising that it's a pretty nutty idea to have these crazy things like an extension of their mind?

BRUNO: Some of them, now, yes, and then we have the ashram and the only ashram we're going to close is the Rome ashram, because 5 people they want to go out and only 3 people they want to stay inside of the ashram.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, what about the other local premies, are they active? The premies that are not in the ashram. In the community?

BRUNO: In the community? Yeah, the community. Like in all the community except Milano.

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GURU MAHARAJ JI: Milano is the NHQ?

BRUNO: Other communities they are quite active. They really are coming together. Now, especially Bologna and Roma now is really together, and Venice.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Why do you guys think that Milano community is not active? What is Valerio now, you know, Valerio is controller?

BRUNO: He was. (Laughter).

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Oh, it just happened. Why do you think that the community in Milano is not active?

BRUNO: Because the NHQ is there. I think basically we have a problem concerning the Mission. Because the DUO Director and the Community Council just vanished.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Maybe you should get a motor-home. A motor-home, one to live in, one to have your office in, and live somewhere in the jungle, where there's nobody.

BRUNO: We have a community premie from Milano.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Where is the community premie from Milano? Do you think these guys are crazy? This guy here and that one?

PREMIE: No, I don't think.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What do you think is the problem about premies that are not participating?

PREMIE: The problem is that we all try to participate in the wrong way, as in many countries, we lost the main point. Actually a few premies lose it and we become bla-bla, you know, and everyone was involved in the process. But now we are completely aware that this is crazy.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Starting to pull back again?

PREMIE: Yes.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's good. It's nice to have a change once in a while. (Laughter). Is there any initiator applying from Italy?

PREMIE: Yes. This one is Dario, and the other one's Valerio.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's why you got fired! (Laughter). How about, what is your experience of Knowledge. (Nearly laughing).

BRUNO: My experience of Knowledge? I like very much.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Huh?

BRUNO: I like the experience very much.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: You like it? (Laughter). That's good. (Laughter and applause). That's all.

BRUNO: Well, actually, no, because the meditation gets me so high, because I've learnt so many things, it is really the only thing I really like, you know, my meditation, but I do like meditation. I used to practise before.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: I see. Haven't you realised that the things that you get into that make you lose touch with meditation are just an extension of your mind.

BRUNO: Yes.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: If you know it's an extension of your mind why do you get into it? (Laughter).

BRUNO: Because sometimes you are listening to your mind.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Why do you listen to your mind when you know it's crazy? (Laughter).

BRUNO: What I come to realise more is that it is not a way to realise this Knowledge any more. I'm beginning to realise this more that the only way is to surrender completely. I'm not very clear.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's the best thing you have said in your whole life.
Yes, that's what it takes. Total surrender. Complete surrender.
So overall things are going pretty good in Italy?

BRUNO: It's a long time we don't have an initiator …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Well, a lot of initiators have hit the road again. Just about all of them. Doing propagation, but it's just not enough, it's just that the results would be more satisfactory if they were to be in local communities or local places.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: How is Sweden?

PREMIE: Sweden is pretty nice but to repeat the same old story we've been going through a whole lot of change, especially since your visit there. When you came we had a very … very strong organisation, and people were really co-operating and helping and, I must say, very much of their own interest too. But we made it too big. And you came, and took the air out of our big ideas. And the reaction after your satsang was 'Oh, only satsang, service and meditation, is that all? " And, so simple. And we had a whole lot of things to go through to get any kind of near to that simplicity again, and I guess we still have a lot to go through, but we realise now anyway that all these ornaments, all this paper that we put around the Knowledge, this package that we made out of it we don't need to have it.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: That's good. It's simple. Satsang, service and meditation is very simple but very sophisticated. Really it's very sophisticated simplicity, because it's so perfect in it's system, the process is so inter-linked, so perfect, such a beautiful chain, and all of it put together, really it's just like opening up a flower - satsang, service and meditation. And it's just like, - big ideas, big imagination - a lot of people have that - 'Yes, we would like to have this, we would like to have that.' They have to sacrifice either or, and they actually end up sacrificing their propagation for it because you can just … well it's a rule that you cannot have two things at the same place at the same time. So you can only have one. If you're simple you can have more propagation. And you see, it's like, even if your ideas are to be big, if your ideas are to be something like that, then you can do it, but if you … you know, then it's like, if you want to have 300 storey-building, you can have it IF - because it's like right now maybe you have 500 premies and you can operate out of 3 rooms.

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Maybe you have 600,000 premies, and then maybe you can do whatever you want to do. But the main purpose is the propagation and that should never stop. Anything that makes this propagation sacrifice, it's no good, because it's totally out of line with what we want to do, with what we want to accomplish. So I'm glad that, I'm really glad, that premies are realising that, they don't have big dreams and big imaginations, because those imaginations are not in line with what we want to do, obviously.
Spain next.
You grew a beard?
(Laughter).
Premies left the ashram, it's finito, huh?
(Laughter)

PREMIE: Not yet.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What's left? A few tracks, racetrack sets, that's what you got?

PREMIE: I think, Guru Maharaj Ji, that the situation in Spain from the external seems to be very changeable but internally is I think very beneficial for everybody, at least to the premies who are experiencing. And everything really is you know, so many changes have been taking place inside, something is really happening. We are starting to recognise you, we start to see what is important in this. Knowledge, to practise it, and we are starting to take out of our way things that were interrupting us. To see you much clearly and, all these things.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: How do you see me?

PREMIE: I see you very well.

(LAUGHTER)

GURU MAHARAJ JI: I know you're not wearing glasses, but (laughter) but I mean, how do … what do you mean by 'seeing Guru Maharaj Ji more clearly?' What do you mean by that?

PREMIE: I meant that sometimes the premies because of the structure, between you and the premies that was set up, everything was beautiful, very nice, but it was something there that it was not given clear, like clarity between you and the premies, or the premies and you. And as soon as you decided to give responsibility to all the communities, decentralise the Mission, then this disappeared, and as soon as everything disappeared, something starts to come out that was not previously present, and this …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What about the ashrams?

PREMIE: What about the ashrams? It happened something like that because the structure, well the ashram life in Spain, it used to be well followed by the members, but I think very tight, you know, rules, they were following very tight. You know, as soon as they hear, the first news from Denver that everything was going to be moving into a different environment you see, all the premies start to feel more relaxed and saying, 'well, I'm going to take a decision, if I'm going to live in the ashram again, I'm going to take it seriously this time because during …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Well, well well, that's interesting because premies, I mean it's like, yes, there was an ashram code but the ashram code, the way even it was, it could have been followed in a very relaxed manner. Because ashram code itself wasn't that intense but I think maybe they amplified it in a very intense way for themselves and that was their mistake, they shouldn't have done that. The idea is to take advantage of the situation, the idea is to just take advantage of that beautiful circumstance that has been provided.

PREMIE: You know,some premies really have taken advantage of that opportunity a lot, but some not, they were just there following - I don't know what. But they were there sincerely, but they were not getting anything from having this opportunity, and you know the situation: they start to be uncomfortable, and then at the last moment, after you came to Spain, then everything was very fine because many premies have opportunity to do so much service. But afterwards, everything gets more relaxed and then premies start to express that they have to do studies and the ashram structure doesn't give them so much opportunity to open up, to express all that they were feeling, or get into studies. So, you know, there was so much …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, but there still has to be clarity there. The ashram structure of course prohibits extension of mind, you know; and its like, a lot of times, it is an extension of mind that is not beneficial for them. There are 2 cases I will give you where one person wants to get out of the ashram and he wants to study sincerely; there is nothing involved in that.

Wherever he is going to be, he is still going to follow the ashram life but he just wants to finish his education for a particular purpose so that maybe he can do some service better. Another situation is that a person wants to get out of an ashram. Period. And he wants to have something to do once he gets out. So he is going to take up studies - he figures maybe his parents will supply him enough money for it and so on and so forth, so he picks up study. That's an extension of mind in terms of where he just figures that ;I found out it's my hobby, and have a nice time, and do this, and go wherever I want to.' And there's a lot of difference. Extension of mind - that ashram tries to prohibit. That the premies have to be clear before they leave ashram is my only concern; that they're clear. Some premies leave the ashram, they turn around, say,'oh-oh, it was the w-r-o-n-g time,' you know? And then there is this whole sense of guilt, then there is this whole sense of what have you, And then that's not such a good idea. That's not such a good idea. But then, sometimes premies are really strong, and they have really taken that advantage of that situation, and it is really beautiful for them to go out and to experience it; and they still carry that separation between the world and their actual lives. It's like, they have gotten so used to it and they have gotten so strong in it that they have barrier, that ashram barrier, all around them, wherever they go, and they're really strong premies; they don't feel guilty about it.

And some of these premies,you know, they just leave the ashram and all of a sudden they just find themselves in a very weird position where,actually, they're not experiencing anything any more; it's like it's too much;

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the world has asked too much of them; it has drained them literally, and they are not ready to face it yet, and that really makes a lot of problem for those people. Anybody who wants to leave the ashram should be really strong. Of course it was not my idea to encourage premies to leave the ashram. My idea was to just refine it more so that there would be a little more flexibility. My idea was that people who wanted to stay in the ashram for lifelong, they could stay in the ashram for lifelong; but other premies, that were not in the ashram for lifelong, just were here and there, could also have an opportunity to live in the ashram. So that I was just making it more flexible, you know. And a lot of premies have left the ashram and I feel - maybe some have made the right decision, but I think some have not made the right decision, and they are finding it out for themselves, that they have not made the right decision. And it's just pitiful; it's not a pleasant sight, let's put it this way, because they are very confused, they are very sad; I mean, some are very confused, some are very sad, and some are very guilty and, maybe it wasn't a great idea. Lots and lots of people were forced into that decision of leaving the ashram. So see what happens.
Denmark?
You sold the boat, you sold the Renault, sold the …

(LAUGHTER)

What's happening?
I heard everything was finito, right down …

PREMIE FROM DENMARK: No it's not finito; but it's in a bad shape, and over a period of a year, the key staff has been removed … Ole was taken out, other premies left the Mission very suddenly. Not so long ago, the ashram members, they were forced out also - it wasn't all that good. Our facilities were too big; we had the boat and we had the residence; we rented a big house for a restaurant and offices - we made huge offices, and … it just didn't work, any of it, and suddenly we were really financially caught up in it.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Well you could have sold me the boat.

(LAUGHTER)

PREMIE: We wanted to give it to you but we couldn't.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Well, l would have bought it. Can you imagine the price that you got for that boat? It would have been really nice!

PREMIE: It was a really good boat.

(LAUGHTER)

GURU MAHARAJ JI: See, I didn't know it got sold for that price. When I found out that you were going to sell it, I said, 'Let me know what you want to sell it for, because if it is too much money - you know, I don't have it, but if it's fair enough, then maybe there is no problem, maybe I could get it; and the amount it was sold for, I most definitely could have gotten it. It would have been no problem whatsoever; you could have shipped it to America and everything, because in Los Angeles we live on this hill and everyday you look out your living room and you see this beautiful calm ocean.

All you want to do is go out on a boat and …. go out.

(LAUGHTER)

So now, well of course you were overextended, that's obvious.

PREMIE: Well, a lot of people left the Mission; all the activities in the Mission were just left to themselves because the responsible people were not so interested in it at that point. Just after you had been in Stockholm, people didn't feel safe in Divine Light Mission. They … in Divine Light Mission they …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Why not?

PREMIE: Well because the responsible people, those few that had taken the initiative before were not doing it any more. They showed a lot of disinterest and they left the Mission.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Are you thinking of leaving the Mission?

PREMIE: No, I'm seriously thinking about what we can do to repair that, because the quality of our satsang programmes is very low and we don't have any service to offer to the premies. We have just started a propagation programme, it's not too …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Maybe you should think

15

of another approach altogether. Maybe instead of building the Mission around YOU, maybe you should make it more communal.

PREMIE: I think that definitely would be good.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What kind of hopes do you think you have? What does it look like?

PREMIE: It looks pretty bad, but …

(LAUGHTER)

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Correct.

PREMIE: … I'm sure it can be er, er I'm sure it can be, I'm sure it can be er …

GURU MAHARAJ JI: So, any help that can be provided by IHQ we'll be more than pleased to do it.

PREMIE: Oh, we could do with an initiator.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, we'll get you an initiator from somewhere.

(LAUGHTER)

Is somebody applying from Denmark? For an initiator

PREMIE: Well, not actually, but er I can see the need of somebody to speak and I don't feel I have the qualifications at least now, but….

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, we'll get you someone from someplace, get you somebody.

PREMIE: I think you should send Bodil back.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: She was-supposed to come back. She's out at IHQ still. But the whole IHQ staff is dismissed. Everyone was fired and then they got re-hired.

(LAUGHTER)

It's like, I think, you should really look at it seriously see what can be done. I.H.Q. can provide you with guidelines, specific guidelines; it can give you whatever you deem necessary, except money. That, IHQ doesn't have. And I sure give you good luck, because that was a strong mission at one point, and to watch it go right down the drain is a shame.

PREMIE: Well, I think it will go back there, we just have to ….

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, I think everything will come back. You have to try in the right direction, you have to get things together, takes tons of grace, lots of love, lot of understanding, lot of effort, you know, maybe you'll pull through. You can be the big shot.

(LAUGHTER)

Never become that, whatever you become, never become the big shot; Big shots get the big shot in their head. It's always happened. Somebody wants to become a big shot, and they make him the big shot, then he gets a big shot - through his head. So that's what we're trying to avoid. As we go along, of course, we'll explain you more about this but you can get some communication, some direct communication. Like there's a lot of of other countries we wanta provide for, whatever we have in our pockets. The major thing is you all who are trying now, be strong in your experience. If you are strong enough, then you are going to build a strong foundation. If you are weak, then you are going to build a very weak foundation. Because I think the people who started this Mission, either Ashokanand and all them crazy guys in Copenhagen, were weak in their experience of meditation, they didn't have a good foundation and so it didn't take much for it to come down. You don't want to make the same mistake again. You want to build a strong foundation, you want to build more strength to the whole thing. Be strong. Problems can wait, problems are always there; all you have to do is open the little window up and they'll come in. Be strong. You are who you are first. Premies. As a premie, you have to do satsang, service and meditation. Meditation and satsang, and that's your service. That's your service - what you're doing. So its like, you have to really look at it with clear satsang.

   And we have here … Holland.

HOLLAND: Well, in Holland it's getting better.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What is the community in your country? I believe it's small. It's not very big?

PREMIE: No, it's very small.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What do they feel?

PREMIE: Well, we had a thing going on in the

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summer after your visit - people didn't trust very much the administration and so everyone had elections and we did that with Holland and it worked out quite well, it's very nice.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Elections?

PREMIE: Well, we had a sort of community co-ordinator elected by his community.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Who is this guy? What do other people who didn't vote for you do? Who was the other candidate?

PREMIE: There was one other candidate … and actually I wasn't there.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What did other people feel that didn't exactly like it?

PREMIE: It seemed to work out very well.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: One bunch of people voted obviously for this premie there. What about the other ones that voted for the other premie?

PREMIE: Because they are so together, everybody knows each other; they are friends; it was no problem for them. They know him also very good. It wasn't like he suddenly came in from out of town you know.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Why did they vote for somebody else, why not him? If they knew he was a good guy?

PREMIE: Somebody liked somebody much more, a little bit more.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Yeah, well, you got 50 premies, it's hardly any problem. You got 100, and they'll have 50 more to fight with and then you got 150; you got 100 on one side and 50 on one side; you got 200 and you got 100 on one side, 100 on one side, and it'll just go like that. The way I just presented it. I sincerely think that the community director should be appointed by the IHQ. Directly from Guru Maharaj Ji. And the National Director should be appointed the same. And every 2 years the national director is considered changed. Gone. Every two years. Every year the community director is considered changed. So nobody stays there thinking he is there for the rest of his life.

(LAUGHTER)

They will try to put their energy in, try to put their effort in, and after the end of 2 years it goes through an evaluation process. And if the person has done a good job and he still would like to continue doing service, if the feedback from the community is good, then he is re-appointed. If it's not, he's fired; he's relieved of his service. I think it's a very nice system ? that way nobody gets stuck to it.
   How about Ireland?

TOM OGLESBY: I was just going to say that, Maharaj Ji, next month I'll be two years there.

(LAUGHTER) GURU MAHARAJ JI: Well, if we do it this month, if we do get down and make it sort of official that that's the way it's going to work, then from this month on you'll have to be two years more.

(LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE)

So you really don't like your service, huh?

TOM: Oh yeah, I do.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: Why are you so inspired about getting fired?

TOM: It's just we have a really big problem in Ireland, a really big one, and that's that you've never come.

GURU MAHARAJ JI: What happened to you? You were a simple little premie living in Woodside.

(LAUGHTER)

   What happened to you?

TOM: Actually I'm happy that it's quite small and very quiet. And we had an ashram until the movement from Denver; and there were 12 people living there. And now there's seven living in a house that we don't call an ashram, but they live under the ashram code and the financial system is the same and the lease is up in January and we're hoping that something will come through before January - something, this new system.

Transcript here is unclear. It will be published in the next issue.

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