30

Christ said something about when he came he'd be seen coming in the clouds from east to west. So that's what gives me doubts.

After that he also said something. Read that. Because he said, "I'll come." And then after that he said, "Try. Seek. Search and you will find." He says that.

Can you help me find God?

Oh, yes. I can reveal to you that technique through which you can see God. That's why I don't claim … It is written about antichrist. But the first antichrist in you is your mind. The first antichrist that you have is your mind.

Well, how do we tell which people are going in the world to spread …

You see, I'll tell you one thing. This mind is antichrist. This seems to give us pleasure, the mind seems to give us many pleasures. But it doesn't. It takes us more and more away from God. It is a false prophet. This is a false prophet: antichrist. Remove that! At Jesus' time, when he did so many miracles, people said so many things, "He is a devil," and "He is not a true Master," and this and that. So see that people always don't care; people are crazy. Don't be with people! Because whenever a prophet has come into this Earth, they have always hated him, criticized him, beat him.

You see, I was in London, and there were many cars which were parked illegally. So the driver of the car in which I was sitting also parked on the illegal side, where all the cars were parked. I said, "Why are you parking on the illegal side?"

He said, "All the people have parked there."

I said, "Okay." And when we came back to the car, every car had a ticket on it. I said, "Why are you saying, 'Well, why do I have a ticket?' Every car has a ticket. Now you also have a ticket."

Don't go with people. There are so many crazy people. Who hated Christ? Not an individual man. So many people were there. What do you call "people"? People hated him! That's why God says, "Be an individual and then be true to God." First you make your surroundings all holy.

I've been trying to do that and I can't do that.

Because you can't see your way. You can't see a hammer to knock on that nail so it will go in. You need a hammer. You're trying to do it with your hand, but it can't go because it's too hard. And you are hurting yourself. But if you take a hammer, it is an easy process to knock that nail in. And this Knowledge is a hammer. Truth is a nail. And it is your heart that you have to knock that Truth into. You have to knock it through all doubts. You have to keep doubts away. You need Knowledge; you need a hammer. You can hammer it, hammer it and hammer it, till it goes in.

And then you need another nail also - of satsang - to knock that in more. Because if I knock a nail, a part is left. Whenever I knock it with something, this will go in more and more.

What would you like in return for the technique?

Devotion.

What is devotion?

Well, first receive Knowledge. These are the things you will find out later, okay? Seek for a place; get a bill afterwards. First pay some money, then you will get a bill.

I want to know what money I'm supposed to pay before I get the bill.

There is also faith, keen desire. I am just calling it "faith" but it should actually be "keen desire" to know this Knowledge.

Will all people be able to get this technique or have a chance to get this technique?

I am trying to get this technique to all the world, the whole world. That's why I left school and everything.

Is there a hell - an eternal hell?

Without the devil, this is heaven. And with the devil, it is hell.

There's no eternal state that you can be forced into?

31

Dogs, cats - so many things, insects, so many birds - are just suffering. That is hell. They are just suffering. People are hitchhiking and dogs are roaming in limousines. People are standing like this (thumb out), and dogs are riding in beautiful cars. But can you say that dogs are more fortunate than human beings? No. They're suffering.

Where are we going from here, after that Light?

If you have received that Knowledge and you die, no "botheration." Because you will go straightaway and meet with the whole.

May I receive Knowledge?

Yes. You can receive this Knowledge. And if you don't, if you have done some good karmas … You know what karma is? Good deeds, good action. Then you'll be sent to heaven. (This is what scriptures say.) And then, when all your good karmas will be finished, then straightaway you will be sent back.

Well, I thought that if you don't kill and you don't steal, that is already enough. Then you have enough good in you that you would go to heaven. Isn't that so?

You can't give that up until you receive a technique to give it up. You'll receive something. Take an apple - still you haven't asked God to take it. You just have taken it. Or isn't this a fact? But if God is your Father, that is not a fact. So realize if He is your Father or what is He. Yes?

Would you speak on the subject of reincarnation?

See, reincarnation means that a realized soul, which is one at a time, comes and reveals that Truth to people. Ram, Krishna, Buddha, Kabir, Nanak, Guru Govind Singh … and also Christ - and there are many. They are all called incarnations. They come to give this Knowledge to people so that they may be done with all the sufferings of this world. Like Krishna says, "When there will be a decline in the true religion, I will come to save it and form one religion." Which he did. And "religion" means realization. "Religion" has started from a word "realization."

Suppose my father were Hindu. If I don't get peace in Hinduism, then I may follow some other religion. Because it is compulsory and if it is compulsory, then it is not Truth. Because you are following a religion for peace and you are not getting it there. Why are you following it? Why do you go to a temple? Why do you go to a church? Why do you go to mosques? To find some peace there. And if you can't find some, you look for something else. Because you are following anything to find peace. If you want to read A,B,C,D from a book, and you are not getting A,B,C,D in that book, leave that and get another; you will find A,B,C,D in that book.

And actually, when Krishna says, "one religion," one religion is the religion where all human beings will actually be united. Because there are many fights in religions, aren't there? "No, you can't do this. No, you can't do that." Fights in religions! That's why he comes, to form people in one religion, which is the realization of God. That is called "religion." He reveals that Truth from which people know what the Truth is. And they realize it. That is the most perfect, one religion.

You experience this world that I experience as reality to be a dream. But can you experience this world as a dream and experience God at the same time? Like when I go to sleep and I dream, then I'm not aware of this world here. And then when I wake up, I remember my dream, but I'm not aware of the dream. I'm only aware of one or the other.

I am not passing through the dream. I have passed this dream. I have seen that this is all a dream. So I am just aware of God. Nothing else. First this was everything real for me, right? But now it has become a dream for me. I see it as a dream. So I just have faith in God and I try to look at God.

And the way you did this is with this technique?

Technique, yes. Right. Yes?

What is heaven?

You want to go there? So, when you go there, you will find out. Yes?

It seems like everything you've said negates everything I interpret as "worldly." If I receive this Knowledge, do I transcend this worldly state that I am in now? Do I even continue existing here?

You see, suppose I am sitting in a car. It makes no difference if the car has stopped or is moving, but I am still sitting in a car. I was reading even after I received Knowledge. I was studying. Whatever I could do, I was doing. The only thing was that I was having union with God, which made my things more perfect than they were before.

I can understand that what you're doing here is what

32

you're doing here. But the spiritual state that you are experiencing, that you've become - what relation does that have to the state that I am now?

No relation. They are both separate things. Saints have called it the spiritual world, and this they have called the materialistic world. Materialistic world and spiritual world - both separate. Right? So what you are dealing with in the spiritual world, you can still have that side with the materialistic world. This materialistic world has nothing to do with that and that has nothing to do with this. I am driving a car and I can do that meditation. Doing a materialistic thing and side-by-side a spiritual thing.

But you could not be driving the car yourself, and be doing the spiritual thing, because you would … Well, maybe you could!

I drove a car four hours, regularly, from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and I did meditation all along. It is possible. Yes?

Will we be able to receive Knowledge today? There's been a lot of emphasis on taking advantage of the physical presence here at this time.

And what about India? There are disciples in India and I am sitting here. They are getting Knowledge. My physical presence is essential for those who think it is, who really do know what the need is, who really know the value of it. The physical presence of Jesus was essential for those who really realized who he was, not for all. Right? Well, you will be given a time, and I think that you will be given Knowledge before I leave this place. Don't bother. Yes?

After we receive Knowledge, will the rest of our existence be service?

It is up to you how to mold it. You will be given the hot iron, okay? It is up to you how to mold it. You will be given the Knowledge and it is up to you. Some people have devoted their whole lives and there are other people who haven't. Yes?

Do you teach a particular meditation? I learned to meditate on my center by reading the Gita.

What does the Gita say? The Gita says you can read as many scriptures as you can, do as many drugs as you can, do as many fasts as you can - you cannot receive my Knowledge. You receive my Knowledge through a true Master.

The Knowledge will come when you're ready to receive it. But before it comes, you meditate and you read and you study.

Not according to the Gita! The Gita never says that.

It says to go to a Master, but you can't go to him till he comes.

Suppose I am a true Master. (I am speaking individually for him, not for all you.) Suppose I am a true Master and I have come here. So have I come here to learn from you or have you come here to learn from me? You need a Master or I need you? I need a disciple or disciple needs a Master? Disciple needs a Master! You need a Master. You will have to go and search for it. Arjuna never did anything; Arjuna just dropped all his bows and arrows and said, "I can't fight."

Krishna said, "Why?" And then he prepared him by satsang. So much that the Gita is filled with satsang, the discourse which Krishna gave. He said, "Arjun, why are you like this? Go, fight! Be a karma yogi."

And then Arjuna said, "Okay, God, if it is Your order, I will fight."

And then he gave him that Truth. He said, "Remember me at all times, and my Name, and fight." And Arjuna did that.

He said, "You don't know when you will die. Maybe in this fight you will die. So don't just think that 'I will do meditation tomorrow, or the third day.' Just go and do my meditation regularly. And that is attained when I reveal this Knowledge to you."

You want to play a tape before the tape recorder comes to you. You can't do that. Tape recorder and tape - when they both are assembled and the battery is there, then press the playback button, and then the tape recorder will start playing. You see, I know what you want to say, but you are using that word "meditation" which is absolutely wrong. It is not meditation. It is not meditation! It is a keen desire to know that.

I'm not thinking that the method you're giving isn't

34

meditation, but you just said that once we get the Truth we meditate.

No, you are thinking of it wrong. What I am trying to say to you, you actually know. You feel that before that Knowledge comes to you, you have to apply something. But that is not meditation, actually. You are taking it in the wrong way. Krishna says that you can have Knowledge by all means, but you will have to go to a Satguru, to a true Master, with a beggar's heart.

What do you do before that?

That is what I am telling you. Prepare for it.

How do you prepare for it? Do you prepare for it by meditating?

I'll tell you. Listen to me first. Go to a true Master with a heart like a beggar. Go to him, request him, and beg for that Knowledge. When he is pleased with you, he will give you that Knowledge, he will reveal that Truth to you. So before you do that, even if you do that, you must know the introduction. In a book, as soon as you open the cover the introduction is there. Then you read the introduction. And then you go on to read the whole book. This satsang is an introduction. And this is satsang, and not meditation. You are using one word wrong; that is all. Otherwise, your idea is complete; it is perfect. But one word is wrong and that is "meditation."

I understand.

Why is it that you have to ask for it before it is automatically given to you?

You have to ask for it! Even if you go to a machine which will automatically give something to you, you have to press a button.

Is there any such thing as being worthy of receiving this Knowledge?

If you put three nickels in a machine and those three nickels are okay, then that object that costs fifteen cents can come to you. Otherwise, the coins will come back. "If we are worthy." But there is a great differ-

35

ence between a machine and Satguru! Because Satguru will make you worthy of getting that Knowledge. He will give you satsang, and make you more and more worthy. You can't become worthy by yourselves. If you can become worthy by yourself, then you can even attain that Knowledge by yourself. But you can't become worthy of taking that Knowledge by yourself. So you have to go to a Satguru and listen to satsang, listen to the discourse. And then you will become worthy of taking that Knowledge. You will really have a keen desire to take that Knowledge and then he will reveal that to you. "Worthy" means I should be …

The money which I have should be worth what the car costs. If the car costs $4000 then I should have at least $4500, because registration will take some money, license plates will take some money, something else will take money. In the same way, before I receive that Knowledge, I should have a keen desire. That is called "worth." And when I become worthy, Satguru reveals that. Just go to him and he will give you satsang. He will make you worthy, more and more. And when you become worthy, he will give you that Knowledge. But you have to request it from him, time after time. Understood?

If a person has maybe been searching with his heart for maybe lifetimes, must it be verbalized?

Verbalized, also. The other thing also. It must be both internally and externally.

May I have Knowledge?

Yes.

How can man overcome pride and ego?

When this Knowledge comes, it is perfect, and it makes man perfect. And what is imperfect in it, it just brushes out. Because our egos, ignorance, doubts - all of those are indicators of the devil. And when good comes, the devil has to run, just run out. Downstairs!

I feel like I want more understanding, but I can't see devoting myself to a person after that. I mean, I can see devoting myself to the Truth as it is becoming more revealed to me, but I don't understand why you want devotion to you.

Why do you want a ticket to go inside a movie theater? Why do you go? Before you enter that movie theater, you give your ticket to that checker and he tears it up. You have paid for the ticket. Why are you giving that ticket to him? You have paid for that ticket! Why are you giving it to him to tear it up? So that you may enter. You have to give some devotion. You have

36

to invest some devotion.

You made reference before to the mind as sometimes being an antichrist. But isn't the mind the vehicle to my achieving spiritual enlightenment?

You see, I'll tell you that when mind is there, you cannot receive that Knowledge. Because mind is antichrist. Always! Not sometimes, always it is antichrist. And remember, when you think about God, you keep your mind away. When mind goes away from you, you think about God. When egos go from you, then you settle down and think about God. Right? So you can't take your mind as a vehicle. You have to take your faith as a vehicle for that.

It is very difficult for me to separate my faith from my mind.

No, it is not difficult. It is very easy. What was there for the astronauts to operate in that thing? Push a button and it goes up. But the difficult thing was

37

before, for scientists to discover all that. I suppose it can be difficult for you to come here and then sit down and do all these things. But when you are talking about faith, very easy. Faith is the easiest thing that you can produce in yourself.

Faith is perfect, isn't it?

Faith is not perfect. Faith is the direction towards what is perfect. Faith is that witness, that "Yes, it is perfect." Faith is not itself perfect. The money you invest before you buy a car - that is not all the money that you have to pay. That is only a little amount that you pay.

But that's part of the money that you have to pay. So faith is part of the perfect?

See, we are also part of perfect. Our soul is also part of perfect. But mind is not.

Does the mind comprehend understanding or can the mind conceive understanding?

See, if you want to reach the spiritual world, you have to leave mind. Mind cannot think about that. Mind can only help you in this materialistic world.

But once the understanding is reached, can mind comprehend it?

You see, when man understands that, man has nothing to do with it. I told you, mind cannot reach there any way. When two kings meet, what will happen? Fight! Mind thinks that it is the authority of the body. And God is the Almighty Authority. And God is more powerful. He takes away that sword and throws that away.

Do you believe there is more than one God?

No. I believe there is only one God.

What is your soul in relationship to God?

My soul is part of God. Take a drop of the ocean out of the ocean. When you drop it out in sand, nothing will happen. The sand will soak it up.

Is your soul identical to other souls?

I can't say that. Because I have seen the perfect. And maybe or maybe not - I cannot say.

Are we entirely individual living entities, or are we merged in something? Our soul?

Our soul wants to merge in something. Mind never wants to merge in that thing. Two householders - one wants the house to be dark, and one wants it to be light. What will happen? The first one will come and he will turn that off. The second will come, and he will turn it on. Of f, on. Off, on. He will turn off the light and break the switch. Then it will go off! Do we merge into something?

Mind wants to merge in a thing which is not perfect. Soul wants to merge in a thing which is perfect. Both are very powerful things. (Mind is not as powerful.) So sometimes we think of God, and sometimes we don't; sometimes we think of God and sometimes we don't. So you can say, half of us is merged in something, and half isn't.

When we receive liberation from material entanglements, when we leave these bodies, will we be individuals?

When you receive liberation … take a drop of water from a glass, and then put it again into water. And then take the same drop out again. Can you do that? In the same way, when this soul receives liberation, it just goes and meets that ocean from where it was taken. It cannot be taken away again. Because we are no longer individuals.

You've reached a certain realization. Can we do the same thing you've done?

You can realize God also. You can also realize God! I am giving the same technique to you.

Can we reach everything that you've reached?

You want to reach it? Okay, try. But you have to try a lot, more than you have ever tried in your life. And it is a hilly area. It is a hill! If you stop for one second, down you go. You have to go and go and go and go.

Will the world always be provided with a perfect Guru to show the way?

The world is never empty. Because when the world becomes empty of a perfect Guru, it collapses. It is finished.

But will there always be a living perfect Guru?

Yes!

Do you know of any others on other planets in this solar system?

Why should I know that when I am living on this planet? I should be concerned with this planet.

Does everyone who comes to you and asks for Knowledge receive it?

Yes, most of them. Those who have just a keen desire - yes. And those who haven't, who just come to argue - they don't. That's why Krishna says, "You cannot receive me, you cannot know me, and you cannot understand my questions, by arguing."

So how many people want Knowledge?

39